Welcome Loyola - Part 2

[rlh04d]

Apparently, you don't follow your own advice and like to mischaracterize yourself. Creighton's entire lower bowl is sold out and the cheapest tickets range from 320 and 710 dollars a seat and that DOES NOT include the required Jaybacker donation for that seat which ranges from a few hundred to several thousand per seat. The Jaybacker donations exceeded 3.3 million two years ago. The 200 dollars is for upper bowl non-mezzanine seats only which is only a fraction of the seats at CLink and the only ones available as all other seats are SOLD OUT.

Wichita State season tickets range from 275-330 dollars. So you continually mischaracterize Creighton's "cheap" tickets, yet on average, Creighton's season tickets are more expensive. You still say that if Wichita's tickets were as cheap as Creighton's, they'd sell more tickets.....BS.

http://www.gocreighton.com/fls/1000/pdf/12_13mbbnonrenewalbrochure.pdf?SPSID=92271&SPID=86&DB_OEM_ID=1000
http://www.nmnathletics.com/fls/7500/Ticket%20Prices12-13.pdf?DB_OEM_ID=7500

So you claim that I'm mischaracterizing Creighton's ticket prices by including the donations for Creighton ... and then you cite Wichita State's ticket prices minus SASO donations? Are you drunk?

I was comparing like-tickets -- Creighton had their season tickets listed on their website as $200-$300. WSU had tickets listed on their site for much more. I was willing to just leave it at that. If you're going to want to get into that much, though, including those numbers for Creighton and then pretending like WSU doesn't have a required SASO donation is beyond dishonest.

Based on your PDF you linked, it appears you can get front row tickets for Creighton games for about $810. In the mid-court sections of the arena at WSU, a single season ticket would cost $3355 ($330 per seat, $3025 SASO donation). I'm not sure how much the front row tickets go for at WSU. Now, admittedly, just giving that number WOULD be being deliberately deceptive, because at that level you can buy up to four tickets -- which I believe means the tickets could be as cheap as $1086 ($3025 SASO + $330 x4 tickets). Comparable tickets for Creighton -- $540 ($430 ticket + $110 donation).

As for the upper bowl non-mezzanine seats being only a fraction of your seats ... yes, I suppose they are. Anything less than one would technically be a fraction. Generally when someone uses that phrase, though, they intend to claim that something is such a small fraction that it's rather irrelevant. My impression is that those upper levels account for 9,000 seats, which would be about 1/2 of the arena. That appears to be relatively backed up by this image: http://www.centurylinkcenteromaha.com/L ... .sflb.ashx

Here's the breakdown: Season tickets at Creighton in the nosebleeds cost $200 -- Jaybacker donation is not required. At Wichita State in the nosebleeds, that would be $275, plus a minimum $325 SASO donation, or $600 total. That would be three times as much -- however that donation gives you access to two tickets, which could make them as cheap as $438. And while the entire upper bowl of Century Link appears to fall under this "nosebleed" category for Creighton, WSU's "nosebleed" category is a SIGNIFICANTLY smaller fraction of the total seats available, as you can see from the link I'm including at the end of this.

As for your point about Jaybacker donations amounting to $3.3 million two years ago ... SASO donations amounted to more than $3 million in 2007. That's six years ago. And SASO donations have gone up just about every year since then, and that's WELL before a FInal Four run. http://www.wichita.edu/2007annualreport ... pport+Type

Are we done now?

Yet again, my point was never anything negative about Creighton. Creighton has a massive fanbase. I never argued that if Creighton charged the same amount as WSU they wouldn't be able to draw more fans, or that WSU would be able to draw the same amount of fans if they charged what Creighton did and had a similar size arena. My point was only that if you charge more for a given good, less people buy it, and if you charge less, more people buy it. YET AGAIN, this is common sense supply/demand economics. This has nothing to do with Creighton, other than pointing out that simply comparing average attendances without considering the financial figures only gives you a fraction of the true story.

http://www.nmnathletics.com/fls/7500/Ti ... EM_ID=7500
http://www.wsusaso.com/wp-content/uploa ... _Final.pdf

[siufan4life]

Why should anyone seriously care about ticket prices. 17,000 people attending a ball game is amazing giving out free tickets or not. Wichita and Creighton fans shouldn't care about each other's ticket prices

[rlh04d]

When did this turn into a largest cock contest?

Right about the second time I was called a liar.

I made the assertion that Creighton charges less per ticket than WSU, and it was repeatedly called out. So I've documented it clearly.

[shoxrox]

It was part of your argument.

Not to be argumentative, but I believe his logic was that there was more demand for Shocker tickets than for Creighton tickets and that is why they cost more. One thing that caused the higher demand was the better atmosphere, so you could state, from a logic standpoint, that "better experience sometimes causes higher prices." Not, "higher prices always cause a better experience."

Not that logic is required on this board, but I thought that one was pretty straight forward.

Thank you.

It was as plain as day but some people on here aren't running on all cylinders. It seems like a few particular posters are extra sensitive to anything that WSU has over them, which for some, is a lot.

[frankthetank]

The atmosphere that created Creighton's 17,000 fans a game is not something Wichita State could reproduce. They can do that because they are in a state with a fair number of basketball fans (expats from KC mostly) and no state flagship with good basketball. They have the ideal situation to create casual fans and they do a great job courting them. A school with their alumni base and student body would never be able to average even 10,000 fans by themselves.

However, that doesn't mean that Wichita State's fanbase is worse. Just different. While we'll see a fair number of bandwagon fans after this Final Four, we've been consistently popular for decades because of our sporadic great teams. Two facts to illustrate this:

Wichita State has had over 100 home games with 10,000 or more fans, in a 10,506 seat stadium. That means hundreds of games at near sell-out rates, despite ever increasing ticket prices (and required donations). Few schools in the country, mid-major or not, can claim to have 95% capacity against the Howard's of the world.

Secondly, Wichita State has averaged about 8,500 fans over the last 55 seasons. That isn't good attendance for a few years, but good attendance for decades. In fact, we have averaged about 9,000 fans since 1964, with only 10 seasons under 8,000 fans.

This extends over to most of our sports. Our volleyball team was 7th in the nation in attendance, the 7th straight year in the top 10. Our women's basketball team had games with up to 10,000 fans (not nearly that high an average of course). This isn't supposed to illustrate why Wichita State is valuable to outside conferences, but to give an idea of the culture of our programs.

Creighton has built itself by creating a good environment for a casual fan that never attended the university. They did this because it was the best course for them. Likewise, Wichita State has built our programs by building a great game-time atmosphere for a slightly smaller, more connected group of people. We do this because we have major in-state basketball competition that draws most of the casual fans, so we need to create an atmosphere that will draw local fans and keep alumni and students interested in the program.

Neither program is necessarily "better" than the other when it comes to their fanbase. They both have made the best of their situations, and would probably have less success trying to emulate the other school's style. That is why Wichita State doesn't play at a large off-campus arena and Creighton doesn't try to charge a ton for tickets at an on-campus site.

The amount of revenue from these attendance ideologies is roughly the same, with Wichita State slightly ahead. The ticket prices aren't really too relevant, because you will not be able to get a good seat at either stadium for ticket price. The real cost comes from donations and scalping (as games get sold out pretty quickly at Wichita State). I know the minimum donation amount to get all the benefits is $8,445 for next season, not counting the cost of the tickets themselves. And even then, the school has a priority system that makes it harder for new donors to get good seats.

This is a good explanation. Makes sense to me.

[IllinoisState]

It was part of your argument.

Not to be argumentative, but I believe his logic was that there was more demand for Shocker tickets than for Creighton tickets and that is why they cost more. One thing that caused the higher demand was the better atmosphere, so you could state, from a logic standpoint, that "better experience sometimes causes higher prices." Not, "higher prices always cause a better experience."

Not that logic is required on this board, but I thought that one was pretty straight forward.

Thank you.

It was as plain as day but some people on here aren't running on all cylinders. It seems like a few particular posters are extra sensitive to anything that WSU has over them, which for some, is a lot.

I guess if you never stop with your hyperreality then you guys will eventually believe it. But building your posts off of strawman arguments doesn't work.

[rlh04d]

I guess if you never stop with your hyperreality then you guys will eventually believe it. But building your posts off of strawman arguments doesn't work.

Keep doubling down on this. Maybe no one will notice your failure to read if you stay on the offensive, troll.

[saluki762]

This was supposed to be about Loyola but the idiot fringe of 2 fan bases make it all about them.

[Haha]

Don't you know how important this type of stuff is saluki?

[IllinoisState]

This was supposed to be about Loyola but the idiot fringe of 2 fan bases make it all about them.

You don't have a problem with WSU fans continuously attacking any post that doesn't agree with them? It gets old.