Order of finish with Murray & Valpo included

[Stickboy46]

Realistically, I don't know how UNI fans can look at the roster and say "yep, that's a top 2 team for sure next season."

Well, it was a top 3 team last year with the same roster. Now it's a year older and one of the two teams ahead of them is gone...so....

UNI did suck last year, and finished top 3.

Same Roster? Morgan is coming back? The player that lead UNI in every conceivable category is coming back? They sucked last year and their roster got worse.

[Cdizzle]

Realistically, I don't know how UNI fans can look at the roster and say "yep, that's a top 2 team for sure next season."

Well, it was a top 3 team last year with the same roster. Now it's a year older and one of the two teams ahead of them is gone...so....

UNI did suck last year, and finished top 3.

Same Roster? Morgan is coming back? The player that lead UNI in every conceivable category is coming back? They sucked last year and their roster got worse.

Still. Somebody does have to win it. Or multiple somebodies.

[BirdsEyeView]

Name the last team to win the MVC with a starting freshman PG.

People thinking ISUr is "loaded" is hilarious.

Are we excluding Shamet because he was a redshirt? If not, then there ...

And its comical to see anyone predict UNI as first. Top 3 is a stretch to me. They were .500 in conference team and lost the only player that appeared to be an upper half D1 talent. The rest of the roster is atrocious.

I just showed them how bad the team was....7 returnees averaged under 3 per game (that's not "just about to break out status").

You finished 3rd at 9-9 (8 games back) and LOST BY FAR YOUR BEST PLAYER. Again, read my message earlier that showed what you returned now versus 2014-2015.

I have no delusion of ISUr, I have no clue how we will do. But, if I were a betting man, I would bet UNI won't take this giant leap to be the best team in the conference.

[BCPanther]

I think that this thread proves that the Valley will be the biggest cluster in the history of the league. Here are my thoughts. (If both Murray State and Valpo come)

Top Tier

MIssouri State- If anyone besides Lusk was their coach they would be easily the favorite of the league, but I don't think anyone is sure that this team has enough talent to overcome their coach.

UNI- Best coach in the league, a Bennett Koch that stays out of foul trouble ( a lot to ask) could be the 2nd best player in the league, and while the loss of Jeremy Morgan is a big one, I don't think you will see Klint Carlson be as bad as he was this past year, and everyone else essentially will know what it is like to play D1 basketball, which is huge. Add in a sharp shooting transfer in Adam McDermott, this team is better than most think.

Illinois St- Any Redbird fan that thinks that this team will be better than last year is kidding themselves, not team except Kentucky can lose that much and be better. I still think that they are a 11-12 win team, but this team will take a while to gel, I would say they have a better chance of winning in St. Louis then the regular season.

Loyola- Probably have the most coming back, and while I am not sold on them, they have been a pesky team the last few years, that I think could get over the hump a bit here.

Middle Tier-

Bradley- This team to me is a year away, still young, but will be a tough out every night, however I just think they will be the team that loses a ton of close games that ultimately is their down fall.

Murray State and Valpo- I think both of these teams are in a good spot, but I think it is tough for them to come into the Valley and compete right away, seems like the logical place to put both of the teams.

SIU- Very similar to UNI, but with even less talent, Barry is a very good coach, and can usually polish a turd enough to make it shine, but I think they are probably headed for a Thursday night game, but seem to be above the other 3.

Lower Tier-

Indiana State- This to me is the toughest team to figure out, one of the best players in the league in Scott, but lose everything else around him, but still can be sneaky, I just think it is another long year for the trees.

Drake- I'll take them above Evansville, I like the hire they made, have more talent then there record has indicated the past few years, but I think there will be too many growing pains to move up.

Evansville- I don't see the one player that they can run everything through, so without that they stuggle.

I put these in order, but really think any of the tiers are interchangeable. Not sold on any team right now, Missouri State has the best player in Alize Johnson, UNI has the best coach, Loyola has the most depth coming back, and Illinois State on paper has the best recruiting class coming in.

Questions to ask UNI fans...I assume achrist is one given his grandeur thoughts for UNI next season (also noticed BCPanther and uniftw both popped onto the site and never responded to my above post, rightfully so).....

Does Ben Jacobson get to play? What makes him the best coach in this league? Who ran your team last year? I mean literally who had the ball in his hands the most? Also, who was your best defender by far on the team last year? What was your record last year at UNI with said player? Who is going to guard Fayne, Johnson and Jackson without getting in foul trouble?

Again, I love the optimism, but realism is a great trait to have too.

For example, I believe I have no f'n clue if my Birds will be any good. So, I am not going to put them 1st, 2nd or even 3rd until I see them play. Way too many unknowns.

Realistically, I don't know how UNI fans can look at the roster and say "yep, that's a top 2 team for sure next season."

Team was run by 2 freshmen last year. McCloud was way too good coming in to repeat what he did last year and losing Lohaus forced Haldeman to the point and forced freshmen to play 25 more minutes than they otherwise would have. Lohaus isn't a great player on his own, but he's a mature steadying presence that has an insane winning percentage in his career from high school on.

Carlson is the guy that guards those guys. He was pretty bad offensively last year but he's always been a consistent defender. It wasn't bigs that beat us last year, it was our inability to rotate and get to shooters. Keyshawn Evans killed us hitting contested jumpers. Good on the kid.

Jacobson is the best X's and Os guy and it isn't close. I'll trust Coach K, Roy Williams, Rick Pitino and several others who have raved about his in game coaching and preparation. There is a Coach K show on Sirius from a couple years ago where K talks about how he's the guy that young coaches should emulate.

Again, point me to a UNI team that blows you away getting off the bus. Show me a Ben Jacobson player that doesn't get noticeably better as his career goes on. Show me which coach and program has all the damn tournament appearances left in the league.

[Stickboy46]

Name the last team to win the MVC with a starting freshman PG.

People thinking ISUr is "loaded" is hilarious.

Are we excluding Shamet because he was a redshirt? If not, then there ...

And its comical to see anyone predict UNI as first. Top 3 is a stretch to me. They were .500 in conference team and lost the only player that appeared to be an upper half D1 talent. The rest of the roster is atrocious.

I just showed them how bad the team was....7 returnees averaged under 3 per game (that's not "just about to break out status").

You finished 3rd at 9-9 (8 games back) and LOST BY FAR YOUR BEST PLAYER. Again, read my message earlier that showed what you returned now versus 2014-2015.

I have no delusion of ISUr, I have no clue how we will do. But, if I were a betting man, I would bet UNI won't take this giant leap to be the best team in the conference.

Also important to note that while tied for 3rd looks great. UNI was only 4 games away from last place, While being 8 games from second. 3rd is misleading when judging the quality of the year

[mvfcfan]

I don't think there is one team that is a favorite right now. ILST lost a lot, MOST was a tiebreaker away from playing on Thursday, UNI wasn't that good, SIU can't recruit, INST has a couple of good recruits coming in and lost most of their knucklehead players, Bradley returns quite a bit, Loyola has good recruits coming in but lost Doyle and someone else I believe, E'ville lost their best player, Drake will be rebuilding.

As for the candidates Valpo lost Peters, but supposedly is bringing in some good recruits. Murray St supposedly has a double double machine, and Milwaukee has a bunch of younger players that should be much improved next year.

I think the reg season and tourney championships are up for grabs next year. The key will still be not having to play on Thursday. If there are 10 teams finish in the top 6, 11 finish in the top 5, 12 finish in the top 4.

[siudawgs]

I can't emphasize enough how disheartening it is that in Hucky Hinson's sixth year, Southern is not even a consideration to contend despite Wichita bolting and ISU weakened by transfers. The 200-plus page Fire Hinson thread at salukination.net is well-justified.
Aside from that very sad situation, I would have thought it'd be a two-horse race between ISU and Mo State before McIntosh's puzzling departure. Now, I'd lean toward the Bears, despite the subpar coaching and disgruntled fan base. Talent is talent.

[Blers]

For Loyola I really think a top 3 finish is the expectation; I do think they can win it all if they close out games.
When given the opportunity Ingram and Richardson played great in clutch situations, so i think it'll happen. Doyle is a huge loss, but everyone else is coming back, and it might allow the ball to be spread around a bit more late in game. We have a great mix of players and easily the deepest team we've ever had in the Valley by far (also Moser's first without his star recruit). Last season we were only really 7 deep; this year i think we'll be ten deep. I could honestly see all 12 players on the roster currently able to contribute in some form or fashion, it's just figuring out how many of the newcomers are for real.

I started a thread a while back about the future of most programs I really do think the level of play across the board will be higher, MSU in probably what has to be Lusk's make or break season, UNI with a growing young core, Bradley probably really competing at a good level.... Should be a fun season. Idk what to make of ISUr; I trust that the recruiting class is impressive (i have to, as i'm pinning a lot of Loyola's hopes on what's a crazy good incoming class), but they also lost so much of their core it'll be interesting to see how they adjust.

[Old School MVC]

My guess is that Missouri St will sweep Loyola and ISUr, but lose some questionable games along the way. Probably win the #1 seed and then become the first team to ever lose a Friday game against a Thursday night winner. Here is my take with the teams broke off into tiers:

Missouri St
Loyola
ISUr
.
.
.
.
Murray St
UNI
Valpo
Bradley
.
.
SIU
.
ISUb
Evansville
Drake

[underdawg]

1. MSU--maybe this is tipping point where tremendous Recruiting overcomes mediocre coaching

2. Il State--still got a bunch of athletes

3. SIU--SIU will start 6-4 Marcus Bartley, 6-4 Armon Fletcher and 6-5 (215 pound) Sean Lloyd at the three guards and should have one of the better guard rotations with 6-4 Tyler Smithpeters, 6-3 Eric McGill and 6-1 PG Aaron Cook. They will start a front line of 6-8 Thik Bol (76 blocks) and 6-10 Kavion Pippen (52 Blocks)

4. Valpo-- if you look at the talent Valpo has coming on line from set out red shirts, you'd pick them here too

5. UNi---if the Panthers can still use their pack-it-in-the paint man, they still may win quite a few. That gimmick defense needs to be tested by a team that can consistently hit a 15 foot jumper

6. Murray State--they've got some athletes coming in

7. Loyola---could be better with talent coming in but lost some too

8. Bradley---Everyone thinks they will make a great leap, just cause they went with young guys last year--we'll see

9. ISU Blue--good floor coach but talent level?

10. EU--talent level went down and coaching?????

11. Drake --needs to join a low major league