MVC Week 3 Discussion

[BCPanther]

I realize this is a quibble in his game, but why isn't Robbins a better rebounder?

I understand it's been five league games but Krutwig isn't any more deserving right now than non AJ Green candidates. He's having a nice season but not a standout one.

Why isn't Javon Freeman-Liberty listed as at least 1A alongside Green if not ahead of him? How have his numbers not been standout? Valpo isn't having the greatest year but that's no fault of Javon's.

Winning matters..AJ is 15-2. Javon is not.

[VUGrad1314]

Fair point but you can't deny that UNI has advantages in supporting cast and coaching that Javon does not. That makes (in my mind) what Javon is doing all the more impressive. I wonder what the respective teams would be like if you switched Green and JFL. Who would be better? Who would be worse? Would the teams be about the same? Green is a better ball handler and outside shooter which would help Valpo but they would lose Javon's hustle and defensive intensity which is contagious and a reason why Valpo fights so hard and is so tough to KO. UNI has a lot of spot up shooters that rely on Green's ability to create, but Javon can create and is a willing passer though Green is probably more proficient in that department which would hurt UNI's ability to score. I think it's one of those things where they're both great players but they are (obviously) better fits for their respective teams. I think both teams would be worse with that switch and I'm not sure who would be less worse off. I guess that's why we use winning as a major criterion, huh?

[Majik45]

Historically MVC gives player of year award to best player on the best team. 13 of last 15 years this has been the case. The 2 exceptions were Doug McDermott and Seth Tuttle I think with my 5 minutes of research

[unipanther99]

The Shockers are sucking against Houston and will cause us to miss the start of the UNI-Bradley game.

[pafan]

I don't remember the lighting at Carver Arena being this bad. Seems really dark under both buckets.

Purple Panthers looking good in the second half. They must have missed Phyfe bigly last season.

[VUGrad1314]

Valpo gets a great home win over the Sycamores despite being down three starters. This was an amazing gut check win that shows this teams grit fight determination and character. Everyone up and down the bench played amazingly well! I daresay that the second half was the best half of basketball the Crusaders have played as an MVC member. I can't think of too many that were better, and the balanced scoring with five players in double figures (Freeman-Liberty Clay Gordon Kiser and McMillan) was a joy to watch. I wonder if this will lead to changes in Lottich's rotation even as the team gets healthy.

[PantherSigEp]

Valpo gets a nice win 86-77 at home against Indiana St. JFL led the Crusaders with 23 to help contend with Tyreke Key and Jordan Barnes big nights. Those 2 combined for 19-30 (8-13 from 3) for 48 pts. Free throws and rebounds made a big difference for Valpo.

Isiah Mosley had a big day for Missouri St as the Bears beat Evansville 68-58. KJ Riley led the Aces who are now 0-6 in MVC play. They'll need to channel some big time Bradley mojo to dig out of the Thursday PIG hole.

UNI gets a tough (and rare) MVC road win at Bradley (only the 5th road win of the season NOT at E'ville). 4 Panthers scored in double figures, led by AJ Green's 25 pts. Game was much closer than the score would indicate as Bradley kept it close until the last few mins. Danya Kingsbury looked incredible, scoring 28 for the Braves including their first 11 points. With Kennell having an off night, Kingsbury showed he can be another key piece for the Child-less Braves.


Tomorrow Drake and Loyola look likely to add to the low MVC road win total as they take on SIU and Ill St respectively.

[tribecalledquest]

I realize this is a quibble in his game, but why isn't Robbins a better rebounder?

I understand it's been five league games but Krutwig isn't any more deserving right now than non AJ Green candidates. He's having a nice season but not a standout one.

Why isn't Javon Freeman-Liberty listed as at least 1A alongside Green if not ahead of him? How have his numbers not been standout? Valpo isn't having the greatest year but that's no fault of Javon's.

Winning matters..AJ is 15-2. Javon is not.

One thing that should matter....on any given night in the MVC AJ Green is by far the worst defensive player on the court. He's brutal. Danya Kingsby looked like Russell Westbrook tonight.

When you guard the worst perimeter player on the other team every game in an effort to hide your defensive shortcomings, that matters.

AJ Green is a ridiculously talented offensive player. By far the best in the league. But I can't look past the fact he wouldn't hold me under 20 points.

That said, UNI is a really good team. Really well coached. Having Phife in there over McDonnell who they played last year is huge. The UNI bigs were the difference tonight. Made big basket after big basket. I also think Isiah Brown is really underrated. I love that kid.

[VUGrad1314]

Javon Freeman-Liberty vs. A.J. Green: A Comparison

JFL: 21.2PPG 5.6RPG 3.3 APG 2.5 SPG 0.2 BPG 2.3TO 44.4 FG% 74.4 FT% 32.3 3PT%

Green: 19.7 PPG 3.1 RPG 3.0 APG 0.8 SPG 0.0BPG 2.8TO 42.6 FG% 93.3 FT5 38.3 3PT%

Let's compare Supporting Casts:

UNI has 4 players Berhow Phyfe Haldeman and Brown that have averaged at least 8.8 PPG and all four of them are JRs or SRs (Berhow 13.9 Phyfe 9.8 Haldeman 9.1 Brown 8.8).

Valpo's second leading scorer (Ryan Fazekas) has played one full game all season Outside of that, only Mileek McMillan (8.9PPG) beats the mark of the top 4 Panthers. Nick Robinson (8.5 PPG) is in his first year with the program after sitting out (yes I know that's the case for Berhow too who came from Pepperdine if I'm not mistaken) and Donovan Clay (8.5 PPG) is a freshman. As our beat writer recently pointed out, McMillan is the only player still on the team who logged significant minutes two years ago in Valpo's first trip to Cedar Falls. My point? Using wins and losses as the main criterion ignores a lot of important factors like injuries and team experience that are important things to weigh when evaluating a player's performance and value to his team and to the conference relative to his peers. Give Valpo a healthy Fazekas and tell me how their record would look. Hint: A lot better. I would even venture to say that Valpo with a healthy Ryan Fazekas to bring secondary scoring beats Northern Iowa in Cedar Falls. Disagree all you want but Valpo controlled significant stretches of that game and the game only got out of hand in desperation time when Valpo needed a three to stay close. Do you know who's probably the best player on Valpo's roster at providing three point shooting? Ryan Fazekas. I get it, though, it's no use to cry over spilled milk and teams have to play the cards that they're dealt. Injuries happen. But in my mind that makes what Javon Freeman-Liberty is doing more impressive and makes him more deserving of the honor, not less. But I'm a biased Valpo fan.

Conclusions:

Not only does Freeman-Liberty best Green in EVERY SIGNIFICANT STATISTICAL CATEGORY except FTs and 3 pointers, he's also leading a less experienced and less statistically successful supporting cast. He's also doing it shorthanded because Valpo's Berhow (Fazekas) is on the shelf. We don't have a Haldeman to set up the offense and settle things down when things get tough, we don't have a Phyfe to reliably dump the ball down into the post and get buckets from when we need to stop runs. Freeman-Liberty has to be our Green, our Haldeman, our Berhow, and our Phyfe all by himself a lot of the time, while Green has these pieces he can play off of and feed off of until he needs to take over. Javon needs to take over from the jump or the whole thing just doesn't go for us while Green can pick his spots much more freely. Green is a terrific player having a fantastic year and is an extremely deserving candidate; but with all due respect to A.J. Green, Wins and losses aside, I don't know how anybody can look at this head to head comparison and tell me Green is more deserving of the Larry Bird award right now than Freeman-Liberty. In my mind, it's not really all that close. if winning really is the only criterion, then give Green the award; but if we're actually looking for the best PLAYER in the conference, I think we need to give it to JFL. Remember wins and losses are a team stat and in control of the team not any one individual player. The PLAYER OF THE YEAR is about that one individual player and should not be decided solely on how good his supporting cast is. If the best player is not on the best team so be it the award should still go to him not a comparable player on a better team. We have such a case this year as things stand right now. The award should rightfully go to Freeman-Liberty not to Green.

[BCPanther]

Javon Freeman-Liberty vs. A.J. Green: A Comparison

JFL: 21.2PPG 5.6RPG 3.3 APG 2.5 SPG 0.2 BPG 2.3TO 44.4 FG% 74.4 FT% 32.3 3PT%

Green: 19.7 PPG 3.1 RPG 3.0 APG 0.8 SPG 0.0BPG 2.8TO 42.6 FG% 93.3 FT5 38.3 3PT%

Let's compare Supporting Casts:

UNI has 4 players Berhow Phyfe Haldeman and Brown that have averaged at least 8.8 PPG and all four of them are JRs or SRs (Berhow 13.9 Phyfe 9.8 Haldeman 9.1 Brown 8.8).

Valpo's second leading scorer (Ryan Fazekas) has played one full game all season Outside of that, only Mileek McMillan (8.9PPG) beats the mark of the top 4 Panthers. Nick Robinson (8.5 PPG) is in his first year with the program after sitting out (yes I know that's the case for Berhow too who came from Pepperdine if I'm not mistaken) and Donovan Clay (8.5 PPG) is a freshman. As our beat writer recently pointed out, McMillan is the only player still on the team who logged significant minutes two years ago in Valpo's first trip to Cedar Falls. My point? Using wins and losses as the main criterion ignores a lot of important factors like injuries and team experience that are important things to weigh when evaluating a player's performance and value to his team and to the conference relative to his peers. Give Valpo a healthy Fazekas and tell me how their record would look. Hint: A lot better. I would even venture to say that Valpo with a healthy Ryan Fazekas to bring secondary scoring beats Northern Iowa in Cedar Falls. Disagree all you want but Valpo controlled significant stretches of that game and the game only got out of hand in desperation time when Valpo needed a three to stay close. Do you know who's probably the best player on Valpo's roster at providing three point shooting? Ryan Fazekas. I get it, though, it's no use to cry over spilled milk and teams have to play the cards that they're dealt. Injuries happen. But in my mind that makes what Javon Freeman-Liberty is doing more impressive and makes him more deserving of the honor, not less. But I'm a biased Valpo fan.

Conclusions:

Not only does Freeman-Liberty best Green in EVERY SIGNIFICANT STATISTICAL CATEGORY except FTs and 3 pointers, he's also leading a less experienced and less statistically successful supporting cast. He's also doing it shorthanded because Valpo's Berhow (Fazekas) is on the shelf. We don't have a Haldeman to set up the offense and settle things down when things get tough, we don't have a Phyfe to reliably dump the ball down into the post and get buckets from when we need to stop runs. Freeman-Liberty has to be our Green, our Haldeman, our Berhow, and our Phyfe all by himself a lot of the time, while Green has these pieces he can play off of and feed off of until he needs to take over. Javon needs to take over from the jump or the whole thing just doesn't go for us while Green can pick his spots much more freely. Green is a terrific player having a fantastic year and is an extremely deserving candidate; but with all due respect to A.J. Green, Wins and losses aside, I don't know how anybody can look at this head to head comparison and tell me Green is more deserving of the Larry Bird award right now than Freeman-Liberty. In my mind, it's not really all that close. if winning really is the only criterion, then give Green the award; but if we're actually looking for the best PLAYER in the conference, I think we need to give it to JFL. Remember wins and losses are a team stat and in control of the team not any one individual player. The PLAYER OF THE YEAR is about that one individual player and should not be decided solely on how good his supporting cast is. If the best player is not on the best team so be it the award should still go to him not a comparable player on a better team. We have such a case this year as things stand right now. The award should rightfully go to Freeman-Liberty not to Green.

So, AJ should be punished for playing for a program that holds on to players and doesn't have a mass exodus every spring?

That said, if you believe that they're going to give POY to a guy on a 5th-7th place team over a guy putting up Hersey Hawkins like league scoring numbers that also plays for the team that's going to win the league, I can't help you.

JFL is a wonderful player. Kid's tough as nails. I can't even imagine how bad Valpo would be without him but AJ will be player of the year and pretty damn year unanimously.