Bradley gives Les the boot

[BirdmanBB]

So what your saying is the valley will be good again in 4 years when BU is good again?

I am all for tradition, but someone made a good point about BU's history and it's relevance to now. Absolutely nothing. Did you know Loyola is the only team in Illinois to win a National Championship? BU can't touch that.

Now it's completely understandable if you are saying BU needs to be better because the fans who donate demand it and there is a lot of cashflow at stake. If they got the money to hire a top notch coach who has the ability to bring the best players into BU then so be it, but even after Les, I don't think BU is ready to fork it over just yet.

For all of you saying that "my team" or "these team" need to be good for the valley to be good is garbage as well. Let's be honest, there has been a ton of coaching turnover since the multibid season. That hurts the valley big time. The two coaches who stuck around weren't the good ones. The 150 RPi rule was taken away which killed the valley as well.

The truth is, we need any 3-4 teams in the valley any year to be extremely good for the valley to be good again. It's not all about BU or any other individual team. Everyone needs to do their part to make the valley better and we need 3-4 teams to really stand out. It all starts with recruiting and then the non-con. I don't think it's a matter of the valley not being a ble to get the talent anymore. I think we have that now. We all need to do our part and schedule games. Our better teams any given year will win more of them than our lower teams. The valley will only be as strong as our weakest link. For example, a loss to SIU at home might not have looked as bad if they had some decent wins in the non-con. Sadly, this league is turning into "everyone for themselves" and unfortunately, my team is the most guilty of it. (hopefully a new AD will put the pressure on)

[tribecalledquest]

Good posts by all.

Ace Dad--you answered your own questions--Jim Les didn't win enough. It's not really a complicated answer, nor are the questions complicated. Again, if Jim wanted to make 75K a year he would still be the coach at Bradley. He didn't and he isn't. Time to move on.

MVJ--excellent points. I understand history is just that, history. But at times it is relevant. Until the Qwest Center and the last recent revival of Wichita Bradley led the league in attendance every year. Right now, its still Creighton, Wichita and Bradley 1,2, 3. No one else has really come close to challenging that with any success.

Yes, a lot of Bradley's success is in the long ago past, but some of it is recent as well. Again, two guys currently playing in the NBA (three if you count Granger). Does that matter? Who knows.

This is not me drinking any kind of Bradley Kool-Aid. I realize in baseball Bradley isn't important to the MVC. Wichita and Missouri State are. In soccer, Creighton needs to be good. It just varies. Bradley is one of the teams the league would like to be consistently good. I hope this doesnt come as a surprise to people.

[Ace Dad]

ChitTown, you do not know me very well if you think I am envious of any other Valley school. I like our conference and I respect each school. I first meet Bradley basketball staff on the recruiting trail in 1998 and 1999. I already knew of Bradley's reputation as a fine institution and a competitive basketball program. I attended a game in the early 2000s when the Braves were not too nice to the Aces. Two of my son's former coaches, Len Forrester (UE graduate) and Steve Merfeld (UE coach) both worked at Bradley University and loved the college and its fanbase.

I intentionally 'stir the pot" to get various comments on a topic. The old-time posters know that I will defend a coach, unless he has done something illegal, immoral, or unethical. I think that Coach Les is a fine man who did the best he could with what he had, and that it was not good enough for the Bradley faithful--fans, boosters, alumni, and big-money backers. There comes a time when each leader must transition.

Last, too many fans at each level of basketball belittle the next level of basketball. It is juvenile and unneccessary. Bigger is not better. More is not better. Negative comments about the OVC may make MVC fans feel superior just like putting down the MVC makes some Big 12 fans feel good. There are no "facts" involved. Colleges do the best they can with the resources they have at the level they play and fans ought to respect each level of college basketball.

[chitown fanatic]

Those who know me know that I to like to "stir the pot" as well, but I'm not comparing the OVC to the MVC. I was comparing Evansville to Bradley, two schools that couldnt have less in common as far as basketball history goes and why it can be explained that Bradley's fanbase has higher expectations and reacts the way it does when those expectations arent met. I'm sure EU did cartwheels avoiding the play-in game this year and I thought Marty did a great job, probably his best ever getting them there. But to suggest that Bradley isnt more important to regain its former flagship status for the good of the valley compared to Evansville is just ludicrous. Yes, all of us collectively have to be better, but when people look at the valley, Bradley is a household name, and seeing it in the basement of the conference reflects more negatively than if EU were in its place instead. It has more support, more funding, better facilities, etc and needs to capitalize immediately. Evansville, on the other hand, seriously considered D2 status just 3 years ago, and I really think would be better off long term in another conference and replaced with another school with a richer tradition, like a number of current A-10 members have that could fit well in the Valley.(another topic altogether) Bradley needs a winner and finishing no higher tahn 4th in 9 years isnt acceptable to our University. It was more time than most give with that kind of performance, and hopefully they do this right this time and bring us back to prominence with a coach who can recruit, teach, and produce a winner.

[BirdmanBB]

I'll be honest Chitown. Growing up in a chicago suburb in the late 80's/early 90's, it was all about illinois. I knew of the valley, but I didn't really even know what conferences SIU, ISU or BU belonged to. I did however know that CU belonged/owned the valley. They were the household name of the valley. So I wouldn't get too crazy about putting BU and Flagship in the same sentence or calling BU a "household name." Most Chicagoland people hold SIU and ISU in higher regard than BU from what I have noticed (even if BU has "better facilities" or "more funding.") Most people on the east or west coast can tell you where SIU or ISU is located by the name on the front of the Jersey, but not have a clue where BU is.

The only thing that should matter for getting the valley back to multi-bid status and a respectable position is having 3-4 very strong teams at the top of the valley every year no matter what the name is on the front of the jersey. Right now we are lucky to have 1.

[BradleyBrave]

ChitTown, you do not know me very well if you think I am envious of any other Valley school. I like our conference and I respect each school. I first meet Bradley basketball staff on the recruiting trail in 1998 and 1999. I already knew of Bradley's reputation as a fine institution and a competitive basketball program. I attended a game in the early 2000s when the Braves were not too nice to the Aces. Two of my son's former coaches, Len Forrester (UE graduate) and Steve Merfeld (UE coach) both worked at Bradley University and loved the college and its fanbase.

I intentionally 'stir the pot" to get various comments on a topic. The old-time posters know that I will defend a coach, unless he has done something illegal, immoral, or unethical. I think that Coach Les is a fine man who did the best he could with what he had, and that it was not good enough for the Bradley faithful--fans, boosters, alumni, and big-money backers. There comes a time when each leader must transition.

Last, too many fans at each level of basketball belittle the next level of basketball. It is juvenile and unneccessary. Bigger is not better. More is not better. Negative comments about the OVC may make MVC fans feel superior just like putting down the MVC makes some Big 12 fans feel good. There are no "facts" involved. Colleges do the best they can with the resources they have at the level they play and fans ought to respect each level of college basketball.

So why couldn't you just post this to begin with instead of the pompous 'mark this blog down', 'put down the kool-aid' holier-than-thou post?

[Ace Dad]

Chi Town, well-thought out response. I understand and agree with most of what you said. However, let us not forget that Evansville ran off Jim Crews and Steve Merfeld because the Aces were not winning and the fans were restless. So, how are our fanbases any different?

Are you assuming that only Bradley University has basketball tradition and the rest of us are nappy-headed step children who should find new conference homes? A conference comprised of historically strong teams, competing teams, and teams that rise and fall, depending on the situation, describes most basketball conferences. A conference comprised of "10 Dukes" or "10 Ohio States is not always the best scenario. Using an analogy: A chicken is comprised of a head, two breasts, two drumstics, two thighs, two wings, a heart, a liver, a gizzard, a butt, and two feet. The breast may be the best part, but the chicken needs its "axx" and its gizzard or it is not a functioning chicken. It is all the parts that make the whole.

[BirdmanBB]

Hahaha Ace Dad. I love the analogy. One could say though that since the multibid year, this chicken has been running around with it's head chopped off.

[Ace Dad]

ChitTown, you do not know me very well if you think I am envious of any other Valley school. I like our conference and I respect each school. I first meet Bradley basketball staff on the recruiting trail in 1998 and 1999. I already knew of Bradley's reputation as a fine institution and a competitive basketball program. I attended a game in the early 2000s when the Braves were not too nice to the Aces. Two of my son's former coaches, Len Forrester (UE graduate) and Steve Merfeld (UE coach) both worked at Bradley University and loved the college and its fanbase.

I intentionally 'stir the pot" to get various comments on a topic. The old-time posters know that I will defend a coach, unless he has done something illegal, immoral, or unethical. I think that Coach Les is a fine man who did the best he could with what he had, and that it was not good enough for the Bradley faithful--fans, boosters, alumni, and big-money backers. There comes a time when each leader must transition.

Last, too many fans at each level of basketball belittle the next level of basketball. It is juvenile and unneccessary. Bigger is not better. More is not better. Negative comments about the OVC may make MVC fans feel superior just like putting down the MVC makes some Big 12 fans feel good. There are no "facts" involved. Colleges do the best they can with the resources they have at the level they play and fans ought to respect each level of college basketball.

So why couldn't you just post this to begin with instead of the pompous 'mark this blog down', 'put down the kool-aid' holier-than-thou post?

Because I am a smart-axx who likes to poke at people and then have a nice conversation. Trust me, if we met at the MVC tournament, you would buy me a beer

[BradleyBrave]

ChitTown, you do not know me very well if you think I am envious of any other Valley school. I like our conference and I respect each school. I first meet Bradley basketball staff on the recruiting trail in 1998 and 1999. I already knew of Bradley's reputation as a fine institution and a competitive basketball program. I attended a game in the early 2000s when the Braves were not too nice to the Aces. Two of my son's former coaches, Len Forrester (UE graduate) and Steve Merfeld (UE coach) both worked at Bradley University and loved the college and its fanbase.

I intentionally 'stir the pot" to get various comments on a topic. The old-time posters know that I will defend a coach, unless he has done something illegal, immoral, or unethical. I think that Coach Les is a fine man who did the best he could with what he had, and that it was not good enough for the Bradley faithful--fans, boosters, alumni, and big-money backers. There comes a time when each leader must transition.

Last, too many fans at each level of basketball belittle the next level of basketball. It is juvenile and unneccessary. Bigger is not better. More is not better. Negative comments about the OVC may make MVC fans feel superior just like putting down the MVC makes some Big 12 fans feel good. There are no "facts" involved. Colleges do the best they can with the resources they have at the level they play and fans ought to respect each level of college basketball.

So why couldn't you just post this to begin with instead of the pompous 'mark this blog down', 'put down the kool-aid' holier-than-thou post?

Because I am a smart-axx who likes to poke at people and then have a nice conversation. Trust me, if we met at the MVC tournament, you would buy me a beer

Probably, but shouldn't you be buying me a beer?