MVC Games Week 14

[Action10]

I would like to know too which came first: Loyola’s decision to leave of the leagues decision to add Murray and Belmont. Because I grant you that the records show that the A10 is a slightly better league in the last ten years. But I think instead of asking which league has been historically better, we should ask which league will be better going forward? The Valley is going to be stacked now. It will catch up to or surpass the A10 in terms of bids soon enough. Wouldn’t it make more sense to stay in a tighter geographical footprint if the basketball was the same? I’m guessing WSU is thinking about that right about now, sitting 3-6 in conference play. They left long rivalries and a stable conference to be bad in a wobbly American that’s poised to dip below the Valley when it loses Houston. I wish we had both teams back, but it seems like both took a pretty big gamble that might not pay off.

I always suspected that the Wichita State move was a product of Gregg Marshall being an ego-driven maniac. Could be wrong, but that was my thought.

[VUGrad1314]

Fair points Campbellproud but I have to think there was way more at play here than just basketball. The institutional considerations are too great to ignore for Loyola I think. Not only do they get to be with more private (and Jesuit) schools they also get to recruit the east coast much more heavily now for students and athletes. I think the same reasons why SLU did not want to leave the A10 are the same reasons Loyola wanted to join it. I think they had planned to add Belmont and Murray State beforehand (but I am much more confident on Belmont with that because I'm pretty sure the announcement that Belmont was coming was before Loyola announced its departure. Murray State is a bit less clear as their addition really started to heat up after Loyola announced its departure. Before that there was a lot of whining about market and academics from anything that was publicly shared and it really felt like the market based adds were being talked about quite a bit more. It's possible that this was overblown and that football was the actual holdup (as many others also suspected) but it does make sense in light of Loyola's departure that at least one future addition had to center basketball prowess at the forefront. There is no doubt that Loyola's departure paved the way for UIC but with Murray the picture is less clear. We'll never truly know but there is certainly reason to suspect that.

[BEARZ77]

When the additions were announced is not really an issue ; Loyola's president and probably AD would have been well aware of the expansion committee's targets and conversations . Those didn't just start a few days before the announcements. Not that it matters, but yeah Loyola was well aware of the possible additions . They made their choice because they felt it was the best for Loyola, and who can argue that, because only they know what their priorities were in making the decision. From a basketball perspective , I don't think it was either a great or a bad choice, there isn't and won't be that big a difference in the A-10 and MVC when considered in the grand scheme of things. They can probably look to develop some decent regional rivalries with SLU and Dayton, probably get an annual with Depaul in the noncon, maybe even pull in Marquette for something consistent. But the value of the move basketball wise will come down to do they maintain their current program level or do they fall back a bit.

Like others, I wish them well, but have no lingering regrets or animosities about their decision; it's like any business deal that dissolves . The Valley certainly never got any benefit in prestige or otherwise from the Tulsa/Creighton/ WSU moves, so I see this having little impact that way, and quite frankly if anyone had suggested a 2 for 1 trade of Loyola for Murray St and Belmont at any time, what fool wouldn't take it. Like all things there's pluses and minuses .

[Drakey]

I have now seen it referenced more than once in this thread, but how does the A10 get more auto-bids?
It's no wonder Loyola is packing their bags.

I think it just demonstrates the basketball knowledge of the poster.

[keane1]

[/quote]I would like to know too which came first: Loyola’s decision to leave of the leagues decision to add Murray and [ Belmont. Because I grant you that the records show that the A10 is a slightly better league in the last ten years. But I think instead of asking which league has been historically better, we should ask which league will be better going forward? The Valley is going to be stacked now. It will catch up to or surpass the A10 in terms of bids soon enough. Wouldn’t it make more sense to stay in a tighter geographical footprint if the basketball was the same? I’m guessing WSU is thinking about that right about now, sitting 3-6 in conference play. They left long rivalries and a stable conference to be bad in a wobbly American that’s poised to dip below the Valley when it loses Houston. I wish we had both teams back, but it seems like both took a pretty big gamble that might not pay off.[/quote]

The MVC is right on the heals of the A10 in conference strength right now (Per KenPom #8 AAC +7.19, #9 WCC +5.96, #10 A10 +4.08, #11 MVC +4.03) KP has Murray at 28 and Belmont at 60. The conferences above the Valley have 5-6 teams in the top 100. As of today, the Valley has 5. You add two more teams with top 100 ratings, the AAC implodes and the A10 continues to have the boat anchors at the bottom of the conference weighing them down, I see the Valley pushing the 8-9 range consistently. And that should spell at least a 2-bid conference going forward. Lots of assumptions there, but the potential is definitely there.

[Mikovio]

I have now seen it referenced more than once in this thread, but how does the A10 get more auto-bids?
It's no wonder Loyola is packing their bags.

The A10 is so awesome their runner up gets the auto bid too!

I see the A10 getting 3 bids and the MVC 2 going forward in an average year, and with 3 more teams in the A10 it’s not that big of a difference ratio wise. That’s what it’s been about the last couple years.

[Birdfan2018]

I have now seen it referenced more than once in this thread, but how does the A10 get more auto-bids?
It's no wonder Loyola is packing their bags.

The A10 is so awesome their runner up gets the auto bid too!

I see the A10 getting 3 bids and the MVC 2 going forward in an average year, and with 3 more teams in the A10 it’s not that big of a difference ratio wise. That’s what it’s been about the last couple years.

If you see the A10 getting 3 teams in you might want to get you glasses updated, A10 is not getting 3 teams in. May not get 2 in.

[Mikovio]

I said in an average year.

[Mulefodder]

what about the MaC that is toeldo and they are real good mud hen is a cool bird and ohio U bearcats they are fast and sneaky i hope they get 2 teams in dannce what do ya'll think hell with a10 i like a1 sauce on my cube stake that is it

[Campbellproud]

When the additions were announced is not really an issue ; Loyola's president and probably AD would have been well aware of the expansion committee's targets and conversations . Those didn't just start a few days before the announcements. Not that it matters, but yeah Loyola was well aware of the possible additions . They made their choice because they felt it was the best for Loyola, and who can argue that, because only they know what their priorities were in making the decision. From a basketball perspective , I don't think it was either a great or a bad choice, there isn't and won't be that big a difference in the A-10 and MVC when considered in the grand scheme of things. They can probably look to develop some decent regional rivalries with SLU and Dayton, probably get an annual with Depaul in the noncon, maybe even pull in Marquette for something consistent. But the value of the move basketball wise will come down to do they maintain their current program level or do they fall back a bit.

Like others, I wish them well, but have no lingering regrets or animosities about their decision; it's like any business deal that dissolves . The Valley certainly never got any benefit in prestige or otherwise from the Tulsa/Creighton/ WSU moves, so I see this having little impact that way, and quite frankly if anyone had suggested a 2 for 1 trade of Loyola for Murray St and Belmont at any time, what fool wouldn't take it. Like all things there's pluses and minuses .

All good points. I have no animosity towards them and hope they do well in the A10. It ended up working out for our league, and that’s all I can about, just like Loyola is only looking out for Loyola (which is totally fine with me). If you would have asked me a year ago if I would trade Loyola for Murray, Belmont, and UIC I would have said let’s do it for sure. So that’s a good way of looking at it.