#5 WSU vs Bradley

[shocktheheart]

All that said, he committed early with WSU and was rated as #101 by one service.

As far as I can tell, he finished up #90 on Scout, #83 on ESPN, #138 by Rivals.

Anyone remember when the last consensus top 150 MVC recruit was?[/quote]

My guess would be P'Allen Stinnett.
As best I can tell he was only ranked by Rivals.

SIU pg from about 5 years ago? Transferred after his sophomore year I believe. I believe he was Mr basketball in Illinois

[Aargh]

VanVleet committed early, so Rivals and Scout didn't look at him in AAU ball between his Jr and Sr years.

His AAU games were on the Net. His team (with no one over 6'4") won the AAU tourney they were in (2nd rated tier, so Rivals and Scout didn't show up). I watched VanVleet's AAU teams play against teams with the #1, #3, and #5 rated PG's on them. Fred's teams won, and Fred was typically the high-scoring player or close to that. VanVleet had more steals than turnovers.

Then the BCS schools showed up, but VanVleet stuck with his commitment. I was of the opinion that VanVleet was without a doubt at least as good as the top 5 guys he played against - and outplayed.

Now, there are a lot of media types who think VanVleet is among the top 5 PG's in D1. D1 includes 4 years of PG's, so putting VanVleet into the top 5 in his recruiting class seems, in retrospect, to have been fairly conservative.

VanVleet was probably a very underrated 4* or 5* who didn't get any attention from the major services because after he committed to WSU, he wasn't being recruited by any of their subscribers (those who pay Scout and Rivals for recruiting info by having premium Scout and Rivals message boards).

A Valley team is likely to only sign a high 4* or 5* recruit if the big boys get there first. If a Valley team gets there first and gets a commitment before the big boys are highly active in the recruiting, a 3* is about as high as that recruit will ever be rated. That has more to do with politics and money trails than with the actual talent of the recruit.

Baker was a 0* recruit. He was probably more underrated than VanVleet. Marshall has proven to be effective at finding talented players that he can sign either because he found them and started recruiting them early, or he found them in places where no one else looked.

[Snaggletooth]

See this? Here is the quote.


Lets take a look at Walt Lemon vs. Fred Van Vleet and you tell me who you want. (Using stats from Valley site which only posts top 10)

Scoring: #4. Lemon 17.1, FVV not in top 15
Assists: #1. FVV 5.4, Lemon #5 3.9
FT%: #7 FVV .829
Steals: #3 Lemon 2.1, FVV #4 1.8
3PT%: #4 FVV .429, Lemon not in top 10
A/TO: #1 FVV 4.6, Lemon not in top 10
Minutes Played: #2 Lemon 33.4, FVV #3 32.6

Lemon: 4 categories in top 10
FVV: 6 categories in top 10

Your left off lemon is 42% shooter and FVV is a 49%

[shocktheheart]

All that said, he committed early with WSU and was rated as #101 by one service.

As far as I can tell, he finished up #90 on Scout, #83 on ESPN, #138 by Rivals.

Anyone remember when the last consensus top 150 MVC recruit was?

Was Kevin Dillard from SIU at top 150 guy. I remember he was Mr basketball in Illinois.

[2livewu]

Is someone really trying to argue Lemon is better than Van Vleet? That person must be on drugs.

There isn't a coach in the league that would take Lemon over Van Vleet. Not one. I was hoping to find relevant information on the game, and instead I unearth a 7 page diatribe of crap.

I meant to add I think Rayvonte Rice was a top 150 guy or close to it. Drake fans can feel free to correct me on that.

[Bradleyfan1]

Rayvonte is as good of a guess as any.


Back to Walt vs FVV because really they are both amazing and deserve to have discussions like this about them.


Walt is better! .................First off hes a SR! This is and always will be a SR driven league.
He also takes the opponents best defender every game.
He also does not have the supporting cast that FVV has......If you give WLJ............. ,Early and Baker and the guy is getting 20 assists a game.
I promise Mr Marshall and every other coach in the league would love to have Walt added to the club.
He would thrive in Gregs system....specifically when pressing.
Along with all of the for-mentioned benefits/advantages of being FVV but, ALSO Walt never gets a call......he should have shot at least 15 more free throws this yr.

Walt shoots 41% overall
FVV shoots 48% over all

74% FT for Walt
83% for FVV

Walt is 28% from 3
FVV is 45% on only 44 shots vs 52 for Walt

Assists 67 for Walt and Shout out to FVV hes got 94 dimes so far.........See Baker and Early comment above and............ add the BU shooting % in the mix ......... Do you get the point?

To's again goes to FVV but facing the best defender on a every night basis and trying to do to much ;/
69 for Walt only 21 for FVV.

Both get about 4 rebounds a gm....this is where I have been most disapointed w/ Walt this yr......Hit the glass and then push the ball......shoot layups.....run layup drills all day.

Steals
39 for Walt
34 for FVV

The worst I feel is behind BU and Walt this yr and tomorrow night I predict he blows up and helps everyone of these categories the rest of the way!

FVV is a beast a tip of the cap sir!

But hes not Walt!

[shocktheheart]

Rayvonte is as good of a guess as any.


Back to Walt vs FVV because really they are both amazing and deserve to have discussions like this about them.


Walt is better! .................First off hes a SR! This is and always will be a SR driven league.
He also takes the opponents best defender every game.
He also does not have the supporting cast that FVV has......If you give WLJ............. ,Early and Baker and the guy is getting 20 assists a game.
I promise Mr Marshall and every other coach in the league would love to have Walt added to the club.
He would thrive in Gregs system....specifically when pressing.
Along with all of the for-mentioned benefits/advantages of being FVV but, ALSO Walt never gets a call......he should have shot at least 15 more free throws this yr.

Walt shoots 41% overall
FVV shoots 48% over all

74% FT for Walt
83% for FVV

Walt is 28% from 3
FVV is 45% on only 44 shots vs 52 for Walt

Assists 67 for Walt and Shout out to FVV hes got 94 dimes so far.........See Baker and Early comment above and............ add the BU shooting % in the mix ......... Do you get the point?

To's again goes to FVV but facing the best defender on a every night basis and trying to do to much ;/
69 for Walt only 21 for FVV.

Both get about 4 rebounds a gm....this is where I have been most disapointed w/ Walt this yr......Hit the glass and then push the ball......shoot layups.....run layup drills all day.

Steals
39 for Walt
34 for FVV

The worst I feel is behind BU and Walt this yr and tomorrow night I predict he blows up and helps everyone of these categories the rest of the way!

FVV is a beast a tip of the cap sir!

But hes not Walt!

Little early to be drinking isn't it?

[Cdizzle]

3Pt FG%--Again, without seeing either play and I am only going by stats...one has a higher %. I would conclude he has a higher % because he doesn't shoot as much because he doesn't average as much.

You are correct. He doesn't shoot as much. He has 8 fewer attempts. And 5 MORE makes.

[Snaggletooth]

FVV is a beast a tip of the cap sir!

But hes not Walt!

You are correct

Lemon - loser team
FVV - winning team

[AndShock]

I like how Fred's play is being 100% based on his "supporting cast." Let's not forget he dominated at the high school level with a bunch of guys under 6'4" on his team...and they weren't all projected NBAers neither.