Will your team be better or worse next year?

[BirdsEyeView]

I'll just say this - I would take Harrison Barnes over James Harden all day every day.

Barnes is inferior in terms of numbers, accolades, etc than Harden, but I think he provides more value to a team winning than Harden does.

These Valley conference awards are stat based and reputation based. I liked DAP, but never thought "This guy is going to put us over the top" and he never really got us close.

Ranking our players last year in terms of value to the team:

1. Paris Lee
2. MiKyle McIntosh
3. Deontae Hawkins
4. DAP

So, yes it hurts we lost him, but not like we are losing FVV and need to replace him with a stud that can reach that level.

Harrison Barnes doesn't have to score because he plays with the greatest player in the world and on the best team in the world. James Harden is a way better player than Harrison Barnes.

I know people eat up this "team player" stuff--but alot of that is garbage.

I just chuckle at how bad DAP is now that he no longer is on the ISU roster. To make McIntosh and Hawkins out to be these awesome, team first, unselfish guys while DAP was the super selfish one is hilarious.

You could count on Dap to score at least 10 points every game, that consistency isn't always easy to find. Dap was really important to the team the last two years. I'm hoping McIntosh can be that guy this year

First of all Tribe, I never said he is a bad player....I said he is replaceable, with someone that doesn't even have to be a superstar type of recruit.

Second, both Tribe and Rollbird are infatuated with scoring. If DAP scores over 10 points a game, but gives up over 10 points a game what is his +/- between him and the guy he is guarding, because he was a poor defender?

Also is 86 turnovers to 60 assists good for a playmaker? That was DAP's Assist to Turnover ratio...last year, it's very much negative. Is that replaceable or is that 10 points per game more valuable? Honestly guys...

As for Harrison Barnes vs James Harden, yes he plays with Steph Curry, but I would still take him over the "me first" James Harden.

Harden scored 36 points in the final playoff loss vs Golden St. and guess what his +/- was while on the floor....-27 points!!! Are you kidding me? Does that make up for scoring 36 points? Hell no! But, simple-minded thinking would look at that stat line and go "Oh he was the only one doing anything that night." No, his defense sucks and he is a ball hog.

[BirdsEyeView]

Harrison Barnes doesn't have to score because he plays with the greatest player in the world and on the best team in the world. James Harden is a way better player than Harrison Barnes.

I know people eat up this "team player" stuff--but alot of that is garbage.

I just chuckle at how bad DAP is now that he no longer is on the ISU roster. To make McIntosh and Hawkins out to be these awesome, team first, unselfish guys while DAP was the super selfish one is hilarious.

DAP was a good player and teammate but he was simply a scorer. Is it wrong for ISUr fans to hope for a more multi dimensional player like Ron Baker or Jeremy Morgan? The type of player that can score...and be a play maker...and play defense. I would prefer a guy that could win the game at crunch time in a variety of ways than the one most likely to make the SC Top 10 list with a highlight reel dunk.

[Rollbird5]

Second, both Tribe and Rollbird are infatuated with scoring. If DAP scores over 10 points a game, but gives up over 10 points a game what is his +/- between him and the guy he is guarding, because he was a poor defender?

Also is 86 turnovers to 60 assists good for a playmaker? That was DAP's Assist to Turnover ratio...last year, it's very much negative. Is that replaceable or is that 10 points per game more valuable? Honestly guys...

Like it or not putting the ball in the hoop is how you win games. He was our leading scorer and we will have to make up his 14ppg so that's the mini argument I was making. I think he was a fine defender, not great but no slouch, and a really good rebounder. I don't think we should be so dismissive to think he didn't mean anything to the team. That's the point I was trying to make. I think Mikyle will fill that leading scorer role as long as he has improved on defense so that he won't be in foul trouble and on the bench half the game. Hopefully Hawkins will add another 2 or 3 ppg to his average so Clayton can nicely fill in around 9-10ish ppg and give us another guy to handle and distribute the ball.

Devaughn did a lot more good than bad in his 2 years and I think you should be a little more appreciative of what he did for the team.

[BirdsEyeView]

Second, both Tribe and Rollbird are infatuated with scoring. If DAP scores over 10 points a game, but gives up over 10 points a game what is his +/- between him and the guy he is guarding, because he was a poor defender?

Also is 86 turnovers to 60 assists good for a playmaker? That was DAP's Assist to Turnover ratio...last year, it's very much negative. Is that replaceable or is that 10 points per game more valuable? Honestly guys...

Like it or not putting the ball in the hoop is how you win games. He was our leading scorer and we will have to make up his 14ppg so that's the mini argument I was making. I think he was a fine defender, not great but no slouch, and a really good rebounder. I don't think we should be so dismissive to think he didn't mean anything to the team. That's the point I was trying to make. I think Mikyle will fill that leading scorer role as long as he has improved on defense so that he won't be in foul trouble and on the bench half the game. Hopefully Hawkins will add another 2 or 3 ppg to his average so Clayton can nicely fill in around 9-10ish ppg and give us another guy to handle and distribute the ball.

Devaughn did a lot more good than bad in his 2 years and I think you should be a little more appreciative of what he did for the team.

Scoring is only half the battle. Did you read my James Harden example? Scoring 36 points, but his +/- was negative 27 points while in the game. DAP was never a very good defensive player. I liked DAP for what he was....a slasher who got to the line and hit free throws.

However, he turned the ball over a lot, struggled on the other end of the court, and could not stretch the defense with a consistent 3 point jump shot.

As Redhawk stated, I just want a more well-rounded player and I think Clayton fits that bill better than DAP. I'm not saying he wasn't a value to our team, but he is much more replaceable than many think....THAT IS MY ARGUMENT.

Nothing against DAP, but Tribe thought that DAP>Clayton by far. I disagreed due to the weaknesses in DAPs game that an average fan overlooks due to his highlight dunks, 10+ points per game. I want ball movement, assists, and a good defender just as much as a pure scorer.

[Stickboy46]

Again. If Clayton is MVC Newcomer of the Year quality and second team All League and All-District than he is one heck of a player who averaged 4 ppg as a freshman at WKU.

I never remember hearing about how bad a player DAP was until he no longer had any eligibility left at ISU

Will Landry Shamet be eligible for NCOY? Or FOY ? Curious how that works in his situation. Whichever he's eligible for, he has to be considered the frontrunner.

[Ricardo del Rio]

I'll just say this - I would take Harrison Barnes over James Harden all day every day.

Barnes is inferior in terms of numbers, accolades, etc than Harden, but I think he provides more value to a team winning than Harden does.

These Valley conference awards are stat based and reputation based. I liked DAP, but never thought "This guy is going to put us over the top" and he never really got us close.

Ranking our players last year in terms of value to the team:

1. Paris Lee
2. MiKyle McIntosh
3. Deontae Hawkins
4. DAP

So, yes it hurts we lost him, but not like we are losing FVV and need to replace him with a stud that can reach that level.

Harrison Barnes doesn't have to score because he plays with the greatest player in the world and on the best team in the world. James Harden is a way better player than Harrison Barnes.

I know people eat up this "team player" stuff--but alot of that is garbage.

I just chuckle at how bad DAP is now that he no longer is on the ISU roster. To make McIntosh and Hawkins out to be these awesome, team first, unselfish guys while DAP was the super selfish one is hilarious.


You could count on Dap to score at least 10 points every game, that consistency isn't always easy to find. Dap was really important to the team the last two years. I'm hoping McIntosh can be that guy this year

First of all Tribe, I never said he is a bad player....I said he is replaceable, with someone that doesn't even have to be a superstar type of recruit.

Second, both Tribe and Rollbird are infatuated with scoring. If DAP scores over 10 points a game, but gives up over 10 points a game what is his +/- between him and the guy he is guarding, because he was a poor defender?

Also is 86 turnovers to 60 assists good for a playmaker? That was DAP's Assist to Turnover ratio...last year, it's very much negative. Is that replaceable or is that 10 points per game more valuable? Honestly guys...

As for Harrison Barnes vs James Harden, yes he plays with Steph Curry, but I would still take him over the "me first" James Harden.

Harden scored 36 points in the final playoff loss vs Golden St. and guess what his +/- was while on the floor....-27 points!!! Are you kidding me? Does that make up for scoring 36 points? Hell no! But, simple-minded thinking would look at that stat line and go "Oh he was the only one doing anything that night." No, his defense sucks and he is a ball hog.
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I agree about Harden. Just another me first player with a lot of baggage.

I am not surprised about negative 27.

[tribecalledquest]

I'm not just looking at scoring but thanks. Here are the most recent VORP rankings for the 2015-16 NBA season.

Harden is ranked 4th in the NBA behind Curry, Westbrook and LeBron James. His VORP is 6.9 Harrison Barnes is #131 on the list with a 0.9. He is in between #130 Deron Williams and #132 Bismark Biyombo.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/lea ... anced.html

If you want to use the Box +/- stat then Harden was #8 in the league and Barnes was #169.

The comparisons between the two players is ridiculous.

But dismissing guys who "just score" isn't smart.

DJ Clayton had a negative assist/TO ratio at Palm Beach JUCO and while his three point percentage was higher than DAP he wasn't as good an overall shooter from the floor or even close from the FT line.

If DAP is James Harden and Clayton is Harrison Barnes give me DAP 10 times.

[BirdsEyeView]

Intangibles, leadership and a willingness to work hard on both sides of the court.

Honestly, I picked an average to above average player (Barnes) randomly. If I had to build a team around a player, James Harden would not crack my top 30 in the NBA, but neither would Barnes. However, I would take a Barnes over a Harden and build that team around ANYBODY else.

Check out this link and watch the video from just one game....this is in the playoffs and it happened all season long in the other videos below it!

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/04/shaq-ja ... highlights


This is venturing away from DAP and Clayton, which is very much an unknown at this point. My general point for DAP is he is replaceable and not as much of a star as you might have thought.

[tribecalledquest]

Intangibles, leadership and a willingness to work hard on both sides of the court.

Honestly, I picked an average to above average player (Barnes) randomly. If I had to build a team around a player, James Harden would not crack my top 30 in the NBA, but neither would Barnes. However, I would take a Barnes over a Harden and build that team around ANYBODY else.

Check out this link and watch the video from just one game....this is in the playoffs and it happened all season long in the other videos below it!

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/04/shaq-ja ... highlights


This is venturing away from DAP and Clayton, which is very much an unknown at this point. My general point for DAP is he is replaceable and not as much of a star as you might have thought.

You can have "intangibles, leadership and willingness to work hard on both ends of the floor" and I will take "awesome at basketball" and I would win a lot more games.

Cherry picking videos isn't my deal. It's random, small sampling. The data is there for the whole season. Look at any way you want. Harden is a top 10 player in the NBA. Everything points to this.

I'm not saying DAP was all world. But he was a very good basketball player who led ISU in scoring, FT attempts and was second on the team in rebounding. I think that will be hard to replace. Maybe others don't.

I'm also not sure DAP was some kind of "me first" player like he is being labeled. At least not anymore than a lot of guys on that roster. Dude was a way better teammate than Teddy Hawkins and McIntosh.

[DUBulldog]

I've been waiting to answer this question....now that it looks like the roster is pretty set, I'll say the Bulldogs will be better:

Who's out: Dominik Olejniczak, Kale Abrahamson, Karl Madison

Who's in: De'Antae "Detae" McMurray (juco point guard), Tyrell "TJ" Thomas (6'8" juco), Kory Kuenstling (6'11") sophomore (redshirted); Johannes Dolven (6'8") freshman (redshirted)

There is no question that Olejniczak is a big loss. But, Giacoletti under utilized him during most of the season, and he only played started playing starters minutes in the last 5-6 games. So, it's not like Drake is needing to replace a guy who was playing 30 minutes per game. At points in the season, he was actually the 3rd string center....with a very large upside.

On the other hand, losing Abrahamson is a huge "addition by subtraction". I'm guessing Drake could have won 6-8 games in the conference rather than 2 if he had been benched earlier than the final regular season game. His numbers in conference games were unbelievably bad, but I don't think they even begin to show just how bad he was, since his non-existent defense didn't show in those stats. The Bulldogs were far better both offensively and defensively without him.

McMurray and Thomas add some much needed quickness, and Kuenstling and Dolven add more size to what is probably the biggest team in the conference.

McMurray could be the key.....Giacoletti has a history of bringing in guys to play point who really aren't point guards (Timmer & Woodward). Not sure how good McMurray is, but lack of a true point guard was probably Drake's second biggest weakness last year (and they had a lot). His juco team was very successful (27 wins), and he was regarded as the leader of that team....that tells me something about him.

At the end of last season, Drake was essentially playing a juco line-up....all freshmen and sophomores.....I feel those guys can't help but get better as sophomores and juniors.