MVC going to 12 with UIC and UTA?

[Greg]

Loyola- private school, history of success, in control of their own school

UIC, UMKC, Omaha, UTA- public, no history of success, control of school rests with separate board/system

It’s hardly the same thing.

There is a term in investments: Past Performance Is Not Indicative Of Future
Results

Loyola was not a world beater when they were in the Horizon League

They were 7-23 in 2011-12, 15-16 in 2012-13.

Then they were accepted in the MVC

Now look where they are

[IllinoisState]

Loyola- private school, history of success, in control of their own school

UIC, UMKC, Omaha, UTA- public, no history of success, control of school rests with separate board/system

It’s hardly the same thing.

There is a term in investments: Past Performance Is Not Indicative Of Future
Results

Loyola was not a world beater when they were in the Horizon League

They were 7-23 in 2011-12, 15-16 in 2012-13.

Then they were accepted in the MVC

Now look where they are

Yes, you keep saying this.

[Red]

In these trying times, I often ask myself, WWCD? (What would C0|dB|00ded do?)


If you don't know... be glad you don't know.

He would walk around STL with his yellow C0|dB|00ded shirt as if he was some Z-list internet celebrity fans were dying to meet, not realizing his presence ushered in laughs and snickers.

That isn't possible. No one would actually do that. I wish I could remember some of the other truly awful WSU contributors but am actually probably glad that I can't.

[MissouriValleyUnite]

That isn't possible. No one would actually do that. I wish I could remember some of the other truly awful WSU contributors but am actually probably glad that I can't.

Pretty sure there’s photographic evidence buried deep on this site (that he openly bragged about) but I’d have to search for it.

[Mikovio]

If it means anything to you, UE athletic director, Mark Spencer, has been on record for favoring the admission of Murray State.

Doesn't he know about the evil private school secret cabal?

If the Summit schools are blocking entrance to the MVFC it's incumbent on Murray to find a solution for its football. Morehead State went non-scholarship and they still draw 7K (same as UNI now apparently). Sure going FCS independent would remove the chance of an autobid, but they were never getting the MVFC autobid anyway. This being the reason for missing on an excellent basketball program and the revenue it could bring is a damn shame.

[VUGrad1314]

Why on Earth did we change the title of this thread? Is there any information that substantiates what BCPanther has said repeatedly as this (admittedly suboptimal) outcome being the case? I haven't seen anything Anyway:

This might be a totally off the wall bonkers unrealistic theory but hear me out: Maybe the reason why we haven't heard anything yet is because Murray State is the one (and only) choice for the league right now AND the MVC is holding that twelfth spot open for an unexpected (and welcome because it would help the league's metrics and make money even despite their fanbase) surprise: the return of Wichita State sometime between now and 2025. If you think about it all the dominos that we know of right now seem to be pointing this way:

1. The MVC is going to a 20 game conference schedule suggesting perhaps that only one team is going to be added right now (though of course that isn't a guarantee since many leagues with 12+ teams have already taken this step.

2. Murray State has football. If they were just going to add UIC UTA or UMKC (or just two of the three) they could and would have done so already. Murray State's football issues being unresolved has to be what's holding up any expansion moves.

3. The lack of talk from Murray State sources about different conferences or even negotiations with different conferences (meaning conferences other than the MVC)

4. The lack of smoke from any beat writers recently (outside of one tweet from UMKC that seems to have really jumped the gun because it doesn't mesh well with the other rumor of them starting hockey which might soon become a Summit League sport with so many teams (North Dakota Omaha Denver and St Thomas off the top of my head) already playing it.

5. The seeming loosening of Murray State's market size as a detriment to its candidacy after Loyola's departure Meaning that Murray State is more likely to be considered on the merits of its athletics programs which will no doubt get them in if that's the only criterion being weighed.

6. The growing likelihood that the AAC is going to suffer more defections of prominent members sometime in the next few years when the Big XII potentially expands again (Memphis? SMU? South Florida?)

7. The lesser media contract the AAC (understandably agreed to post 2025 that will see reductions in payouts for any program left making AAC less palatable especially for a non football member like Wichita State who does not receive a full share of any AAC media contract. (I think I read somewhere that Wichita State gets 30% of a full media payout and the number for the AAC went WAY DOWN).

8. The lessening likelihood that Wichita State (who will probably look to leave the AAC especially if one or more of Memphis SMU and possibly Temple (who could choose A10 membership and Football Independence over remaining in a depleted AAC and traveling to Texas several times a year) will have other options. I doubt the A10 will take the Shockers on institutional and (especially) geographic and academic grounds and the Mountain West who is reluctant to add non-football members beyond Gonzaga would only have space to accommodate them if Gonzaga declines (unlikely after BYU leaves the WCC) OR Gonzaga accepts and Hawaii rejoins as a full member (unlikely but possible) OR if Gonzaga accepts AND the Mountain West is willing to (or Gonzaga insists on) bringing St Mary's along with them (unlikely). At this point Wichita State would be faced with three options:

1. Stay in an AAC without Cincinnati Houston UCF and possibly one or more of Memphis SMU Temple or South Florida or

2. Join another league that would almost assuredly be worse than the MVC especially if the MVC also adds Murray State or

3. Go back to the MVC

Sure there's more money involved with option 1 but that will be eaten up in travel most likely especially if most of the eastern schools stay and they complained about seeding before playing an MVC slate. How are they going to feel when they're playing the likes of Rice UTSA and Florida Atlantic? They'd have almost no choice but to accept option 3 as much as they wouldn't want to do it.

The best thing the MVC can do right now is finalize the Murray State addition and wait. It could potentially pay off very big in the near future. The Current MVC minus Loyola but Plus Belmont Murray State and Wichita State would have no problem being a 2-3 bid conference annually and will provide quality games from top to bottom for all institutions as long as we all keep up our commitment and improve our play on the floor as we have most years. Adding this much quality new blood as well as a bitter old rival for many MVC institutions should help with this. I hope it happens.

[IllinoisState]

If it means anything to you, UE athletic director, Mark Spencer, has been on record for favoring the admission of Murray State.

Doesn't he know about the evil private school secret cabal?

If the Summit schools are blocking entrance to the MVFC it's incumbent on Murray to find a solution for its football. Morehead State went non-scholarship and they still draw 7K (same as UNI now apparently). Sure going FCS independent would remove the chance of an autobid, but they were never getting the MVFC autobid anyway. This being the reason for missing on an excellent basketball program and the revenue it could bring is a damn shame.

Apparantly there's a Murray State football booster who doesn't want them being non-scholarship.

[MissouriValleyUnite]

VUGrad, your presence is missed and welcome back here, but Wichita St isn’t happening. WSU gets ~$2M in AAC media rights and their mega-rich boosters *want* their investments visible in DFW, Houston, San Antonio, Memphis, New Orleans, Miami, Tampa, Charlotte, & Philadelphia, not the Valley locales.

WSU also has a $5M exit fee.

[VUGrad1314]

If it means anything to you, UE athletic director, Mark Spencer, has been on record for favoring the admission of Murray State.

Doesn't he know about the evil private school secret cabal?

If the Summit schools are blocking entrance to the MVFC it's incumbent on Murray to find a solution for its football. Morehead State went non-scholarship and they still draw 7K (same as UNI now apparently). Sure going FCS independent would remove the chance of an autobid, but they were never getting the MVFC autobid anyway. This being the reason for missing on an excellent basketball program and the revenue it could bring is a damn shame.

Apparantly there's a Murray State football booster who doesn't want them being non-scholarship.

Well then he needs to be outvoted. Sorry but neither school nor conference can afford to let FCS football stand in the way of this.

[VUGrad1314]

VUGrad, your presence is missed and welcome back here, but Wichita St isn’t happening. WSU gets ~$2M in AAC media rights and their mega-rich boosters *want* their investments visible in DFW, Houston, San Antonio, Memphis, New Orleans, Miami, Tampa, Charlotte, & Philadelphia, not the Valley locales.

WSU also has a $5M exit fee.

I doubt it's a $5million exit fee since they don't play football and is the $2million figure you cited for their media rights under the current contract or the new one they just negotiated? Because I'm willing to bet it's far less now than it was and back then the number I heard was something between $2-3million. Based on the numbers I think the AAC pulled in I think that number would be down to about $1-1.5million. Still a lot but probably not much more when travel is factored in as well as what Belmont and Murray State would do for any future MVC media deal. The market argument is solid and worthy of consideration but most of the schools they added lack support in their home markets. It didn't work for CUSA I don't see it working for the AAC. Not in basketball anyway.