Another Expansion/Realignment Thread

[BCPanther]

I am not so convinced of that. The Big XII is doing a great job spreading those rumors with reporters and rumor-mongerers, but I think the reality behind the scenes is much different. The most probable scenario is the Pac-12 sticks together and adds SMU/SDSU.

I don't think I'm as sure about that as you are.

1) If the Pac12 had a reasonable TV deal, it would have been announced by now. You don't hide a deal that your membership likes after you've talked the game you've talked.

2) Arizona's President is on record saying any more than 50% streaming is unacceptable and they'd probably look to leave.

They're in a tough spot. Apple apparently doesn't want them unless they get everything minus one football game. Amazon only offered one Friday night window. FOX is out. ESPN only wants the late Saturday window that they can turn around to give to the Big 12 if they have enough Mountain and Pacific schools. NBC had no interest to begin with. CBS might be in but only for one prime time Saturday game that will get destroyed in the ratings by the Big Ten on NBC and the SEC on ESPN.

McMurphy was on a podcast and said the only reason the Big Ten didn't take Washington and Oregon is that they didn't want to have the perception that they killed the Pac12 (though Ohio State and Iowa are strongly against expansion, which is SUPER rich on Iowa's part because nobody is tuning in to see Iowa) so they just need Arizona and Colorado to jump to the Big 12 forcing Washington and Oregon to take a smaller initial share than they otherwise would have. Those two are apparently all vetted and ready to go.

It's almost amazing how badly the Pac12 has gotten everything wrong at every step of the expansion era.

It'll be a 30-for-30 if you're right and it does fall apart. They like to blame Larry Scott but Larry Scott was the one who pursued Big XII schools multiple times only for the Pac-12 presidents to shoot it down, like Oklahoma/Oklahoma St in the early 2010s and expansion over a year ago.

It's all so fascinating to follow. I wouldn't be lying if I said I've wasted way too much time at work checking hourly for realignment updates-that-never-come.

How they thought the best way to get their network going was to spend a literal fortune on production equipment and then not get any help with distribution started this whole thing.

You're right. I think Larry Scott was probably right when he tried to kill the Big 12 but when your Iowa States and Kansas States were willing to give Texas and Oklahoma anything and everything they wanted to stay, it put them in an even worse place because they showed how vulnerable they were/are.

And same, I'm just waiting for that Matt Brown tweet that starts the apocalypse.

As for our league in this whole thing, football remains the elephant in the room. I don't know how much longer the footballs and non-footballs can coexist. We're headed towards our version of the Big East implosion.

Gun to my head (as of 5/11/23 lol) in 10 years:

Drake, Bradley, Belmont are in some kind of hybrid league with the more midwestern A10 members (Loyola, Dayton, SLU, Duquesne, etc) and St Thomas.

Missouri State is in CUSA.

UNI, Illinois State, Southern and Murray are stuck with the 4 Dakotas plus a couple more (NoCo? NWMSU? Minnesota State? Augustana?) in a new league that probably tries to get into the FBS as a group. (I hate it). This group probably retains the Missouri Valley name even though it tarnishes the history.

Indiana State either figures out football and commits to not being dog s*** and joins that new league or they end up in the OVC.

UIC, Valpo and Evansville end up with whatever is left of the Horizon League or they join the non-football Summit leftovers.

[BEARZ77]

I'm sure Smart is a really smart guy, but let's stop acting like he's playing chess while everyone else is playing checkers.

He may not talk a lot, but the guy just went out there begging donors to fund stuff that they haven't been able to fund for years and you want us to believe he's some sort of business genius that no one can understand because he's speaking in 12th century Ouija code.

It's cool that MSU wants to play FBS football, but they're a beggar, not a chooser at this point. So you may not feel like a farm dog, but you're definitely acting like one, just waiting for C-USA to offer you a spot to play alongside Kennesaw State.

You're welcome to your interpretation, but I'll point out no one from MSU ever starts these little threads, but you want to attack when we try to provide some clarification. So take your pot shots and vent your little petty resentment. The fact you have to try to degrade schools in other conferences as an attempt to dis MSU is comical . I don't think we ever have said we thought those schools were better or that moving made MSU better, but you sure have a need to try to make it sound like they represent a lower rent district. All MSU has ever said was that the administration had a desire and vision for the University to play FBS football, and that they were doing what they could to be ready if and when an opportunity presented itself. Sorry that's threatening to you. I'm not a big proponent of FBS football and have said so repeatedly, but if that's what the administration and board of directors see as important for the University, so be it. Sorry they didn't clear that with you, but I am so relieved that it's "cool with you".

[TylerDurden]

You're welcome to your interpretation, but I'll point out no one from MSU ever starts these little threads, but you want to attack when we try to provide some clarification. So take your pot shots and vent your little petty resentment. The fact you have to try to degrade schools in other conferences as an attempt to dis MSU is comical . I don't think we ever have said we thought those schools were better or that moving made MSU better, but you sure have a need to try to make it sound like they represent a lower rent district. All MSU has ever said was that the administration had a desire and vision for the University to play FBS football, and that they were doing what they could to be ready if and when an opportunity presented itself. Sorry that's threatening to you. I'm not a big proponent of FBS football and have said so repeatedly, but if that's what the administration and board of directors see as important for the University, so be it. Sorry they didn't clear that with you, but I am so relieved that it's "cool with you".

There's so many straw men in there...

No one attacked you or is threatened by MSU wanting to play FBS football.

When you say stuff like: Not being antagonistic , but so what. Whether it happens tomorrow or 2 years from now or doesn't ever, so what. I get frustrated with it to , but I'm glad MSU Administration has a goal, that unlike many other MMs we're not sitting at the master's table like a farm dog hoping someone drops a crumb to gobble up.

You don't get to be sanctimonious and clutch your pearls when someone calls it out. You threw that barb, no one else.

The irony of the entire thing is you don't realize you captured MSU's position perfectly well in your attempt to insult "...many other MMs..." who you claim are, "...sitting at the master's table like a farm dog hoping someone drops a crumb to gobble up."

What do you think the group of five football leagues do?

[IllinoisState]

I don't think I'm as sure about that as you are.

1) If the Pac12 had a reasonable TV deal, it would have been announced by now. You don't hide a deal that your membership likes after you've talked the game you've talked.

2) Arizona's President is on record saying any more than 50% streaming is unacceptable and they'd probably look to leave.

They're in a tough spot. Apple apparently doesn't want them unless they get everything minus one football game. Amazon only offered one Friday night window. FOX is out. ESPN only wants the late Saturday window that they can turn around to give to the Big 12 if they have enough Mountain and Pacific schools. NBC had no interest to begin with. CBS might be in but only for one prime time Saturday game that will get destroyed in the ratings by the Big Ten on NBC and the SEC on ESPN.

McMurphy was on a podcast and said the only reason the Big Ten didn't take Washington and Oregon is that they didn't want to have the perception that they killed the Pac12 (though Ohio State and Iowa are strongly against expansion, which is SUPER rich on Iowa's part because nobody is tuning in to see Iowa) so they just need Arizona and Colorado to jump to the Big 12 forcing Washington and Oregon to take a smaller initial share than they otherwise would have. Those two are apparently all vetted and ready to go.

It's almost amazing how badly the Pac12 has gotten everything wrong at every step of the expansion era.

It'll be a 30-for-30 if you're right and it does fall apart. They like to blame Larry Scott but Larry Scott was the one who pursued Big XII schools multiple times only for the Pac-12 presidents to shoot it down, like Oklahoma/Oklahoma St in the early 2010s and expansion over a year ago.

It's all so fascinating to follow. I wouldn't be lying if I said I've wasted way too much time at work checking hourly for realignment updates-that-never-come.

How they thought the best way to get their network going was to spend a literal fortune on production equipment and then not get any help with distribution started this whole thing.

You're right. I think Larry Scott was probably right when he tried to kill the Big 12 but when your Iowa States and Kansas States were willing to give Texas and Oklahoma anything and everything they wanted to stay, it put them in an even worse place because they showed how vulnerable they were/are.

And same, I'm just waiting for that Matt Brown tweet that starts the apocalypse.

As for our league in this whole thing, football remains the elephant in the room. I don't know how much longer the footballs and non-footballs can coexist. We're headed towards our version of the Big East implosion.

Gun to my head (as of 5/11/23 lol) in 10 years:

Drake, Bradley, Belmont are in some kind of hybrid league with the more midwestern A10 members (Loyola, Dayton, SLU, Duquesne, etc) and St Thomas.

Missouri State is in CUSA.

UNI, Illinois State, Southern and Murray are stuck with the 4 Dakotas plus a couple more (NoCo? NWMSU? Minnesota State? Augustana?) in a new league that probably tries to get into the FBS as a group. (I hate it). This group probably retains the Missouri Valley name even though it tarnishes the history.

Indiana State either figures out football and commits to not being dog s*** and joins that new league or they end up in the OVC.

UIC, Valpo and Evansville end up with whatever is left of the Horizon League or they join the non-football Summit leftovers.

If we get stuck with the Dakotas for Olympic sports and lose all of our rivals in that scenario then I'd want to go to the FBS.

[BCPanther]

Same. Same. Same.

[BCPanther]

Welp.

Western Illinois is off to the OVC for all sports. Olympic sports move immediately and football in 2024.

That just semi-destabilized The Summit and gave it the same football/non-football problem we've got.

[MissouriValleyUnite]

Welp.

Western Illinois is off to the OVC for all sports. Olympic sports move immediately and football in 2024.

That just semi-destabilized The Summit and gave it the same football/non-football problem we've got.

Wow. That’s a deal where everyone wins. Summit loses a geographic outleir and lowest budget school. WIU joins a league with in-state rivals where they can compete competitively and financially.

Tough for WIU to lose those FB games vs ISU/SIU.

[BCPanther]

Welp.

Western Illinois is off to the OVC for all sports. Olympic sports move immediately and football in 2024.

That just semi-destabilized The Summit and gave it the same football/non-football problem we've got.

Wow. That’s a deal where everyone wins. Summit loses a geographic outleir and lowest budget school. WIU joins a league with in-state rivals where they can compete competitively and financially.

Tough for WIU to lose those FB games vs ISU/SIU.

All true. It's the right move though the MVFC just got tougher. We just added an 'off week' with Murray and now we gave it right back.

Oh well.

[TBS_20]

Now if we could only get rid of youngstown state.

[BCPanther]

Now if we could only get rid of youngstown state.

I'd be okay with that too but there's nowhere for them to go unfortunately. The NEC and Big South will never take them because they'd just dominate that league. The CAA is full plus they'd want them as an All Sports member and Youngstown isn't leaving the Horizon.

They've got enough history that you'd hope they figure it out eventually.