Early Valley Predictions

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Re: Early Valley Predictions

Postby Haha » May 6th, 2013, 4:50 pm

TNMSUFAN wrote:reading comprehension must not be the best in haha land.


You typed and I quote:

TNMSUFAN wrote:
We weren't good last year but we finished tied for 3rd and 1st the 2 years before that


Here is how I read it:

We weren't good last year but we finished tied for 3rd

and

We finished 1st the 2 years before that

I suggest:

We weren't good last year however in the two seasons previous we finished 1st and 3rd respectively.

Also I suggest you not be a d*** but thats up to you.
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Re: Early Valley Predictions

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Re: Early Valley Predictions

Postby Wufan » May 6th, 2013, 5:16 pm

TNMSUFAN wrote:
Wufan wrote:Illinois State is in rebuilding mode just like Bradley, SIU, MSU, and Drake. None of those teams have been very good in recent years, but three of them do have a year of rebuilding on Ill St. As such, it is not out of the question for ISUr to finish at or near the bottom.


We weren't good last year but we finished tied for 3rd and 1st the 2 years before that


If you weren't in rebuild mode last year, then last year was an epic failure and you should have been. MSU improved dramatically from non-con to con, or at least won a lot more games.
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Re: Early Valley Predictions

Postby TNMSUFAN » May 6th, 2013, 5:26 pm

Wufan wrote:If you weren't in rebuild mode last year, then last year was an epic failure and you should have been. MSU improved dramatically from non-con to con, or at least won a lot more games.


Last year was an epic failure...we should never be as bad as we were in non-con but we did improve a lot in the conference season. After watching the non-con I didn't think we would win 2-3 games in the conference season but managed to win 7 and lost 2 others at the buzzer. Getting Gulley back will make a big difference for us this year and we have another good class coming in...should be much improved overall.
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Re: Early Valley Predictions

Postby Wufan » May 6th, 2013, 5:29 pm

agrinut wrote:If Loyola isn't a play on team them we are not who we thought we were.


I actually think the "middle" of the Valley is going to be as weak as it has been in many years next year which leaves a mid-pack or better finish for Loyola perfectly in play.

The reason I think the middle is weak is the following:

No Creighton (who was first place last year and probably would have been picked first again). WSU becomes unanimous #1 pick in pre-season and EVERYONE moves up one spot, therefore the 7th place teams (BU, MSU, and DU) all become 6th place teams and one of them moves out of Thursday.

Third place team UNI loses three key starters from an 11-7 team. They will likely still finish 11-7 or better because there is no CU to play.

Fourth place Evansville loses All-Conference stud Colt Ryan. Without Ryan, the Aces are likely to be below 500.

Sixth place ISUr lost their two studs and 7 of the top 10 players. If ISUr can repeat as a 6th place team, that is COY stuff right there.

Of the top 6 schools CU is gone and only Indiana State looks to be better than last year. WSU is likely to actually improve record wise in the Valley, but they aren't really a better team. That means three schools that were mid-pack last year aren't as good next. If Loyola is improved, with some luck, they could finish 7-11 with home wins over SIU, BU, Ill St, MSU, UE, DU and one road win at empty JQH arena or something. That would be good enough for a tie for 7th last year, and w/o CU, a 6th place finish.

Put me down for a 6th place finish for Loyola! The middle of the Valley can be exposed in 2013-14!
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Re: Early Valley Predictions

Postby Wufan » May 6th, 2013, 5:34 pm

TNMSUFAN wrote:...we should never be as bad as we were in non-con but we did improve a lot in the conference season. After watching the non-con I didn't think we would win 2-3 games in the conference season but managed to win 7 and lost 2 others at the buzzer. Getting Gulley back will make a big difference for us this year and we have another good class coming in…we will be much improved overall.


Agreed. MSU, however, will not be GOOD until they find a post that can play. Maybe one of your new guys will be "the guy" or maybe one of your newbies from last year will improve to that level, but you need a guy that can give you 8 and 5 every night in the paint.

Fortunately for MSU, many of the good post players (cyclops, McDermott, Hall, Mahurin, Daniels, etc.) are gone and Kirk could possibly come into his own as an upperclassman.
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Re: Early Valley Predictions

Postby valleychamp » May 6th, 2013, 7:13 pm

rlh04d wrote:
valleychamp wrote:UNI has had two at-large bids during this recent run, and would have had another if they did not win the conf tournament (you wouldn't know how that works, I know). But you're probably right, we are no different than Arlington, Weber, or Southern. Yep, no difference.

You have no winning argument here. You should really just stop.


I have no argument? So you would agree that UNI, despite having 3 at large teams, Is no different from those other low major programs mentioned in that they are forced to win the conference tournament to even have a chance of playing in the NCAA tournament?

Makes perfect sense. :Bam:
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Re: Early Valley Predictions

Postby siufan4life » May 6th, 2013, 7:15 pm

I think that next year will be really unpredictable if a team loses a player or two. I would also like to point out that the last 4 Valley teams that made it to the Sweet 16 and beyond didn't make the tournament the next season.
Bradley- After a Surprising Sweet 16 finished 22-13(10-8) and made it to the Second Round of the NIT and finished 4th the following year.
Wichita State- After a dominating run out of the first weekend and a heartbreaking Sweet Sixteen loss to George Mason, the Shockers after being ranked as high as 8th finished 17-14(8-10) and missed postseason play with a 6th place finish(would have likely made it to CBI or CIT if it was around at the time.)
SIU- After what was regarded as the best season in Saluki history and a dominant Sweet Sixteen run, SIU finished 18-14(11-7) and made it to the Second Round of the NIT with 3rd place finish.
UNI- After its Sweet Sixteen run highlighted by a 69-67 upset of Kansas, the Panthers finished 20-14(10-8) and made it to the Second Round of the CIT with a 5th place finish.
Wichita State- After a Final 4 where they dominated the West Region, the Shockers are expected to win the MVC.
History is not in Wichita's favor but I do think that they make a return trip to the NCAAs
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Re: Early Valley Predictions

Postby valleychamp » May 6th, 2013, 7:17 pm

rlh04d wrote:
valleychamp wrote:1 good season. Who are we talking about here? Drake? Indiana State? Wichita State? I know it isnt UNI, because UNI has been good for a decade. You might not have even been a senior citizen yet the last time UNI finished in the bottom half of the league.

It's cute how you just haphazardly toss WSU into the same category as Drake and Indiana State.

For the record, WSU has 111 wins in the last four years. UNI has 114 wins in the last FIVE years. And that has nothing to do with this last season -- UNI also had a 30 win season in that stretch. It was the three non-Final Four years that gave us almost as many wins as UNI had in the other four years. And you want to talk about being good for more than one year? Fine, I'll play:

What time frame do you want to compare here? WSU has more wins in the last five years (128-to-114). More in the last ten years (225-to-215). More in the last fifteen years (292-270). More since UNI joined the MVC, which of course includes the worst stretch in WSU history (370-356). More since UNI joined D1 (I'm not counting back that far, but it's not even close). Are we comparing NCAA wins? WSU has a 6-3 NCAA record in the last decade versus UNI's 2-5, and it only gets more dramatic from there. NIT? 7-2 for WSU versus 0-1 for UNI in the last decade. Regular season championships? We're tied, 2-2 in the last decade. Conference tournament championships? Finally a category UNI wins, 3-0 in the last decade.

But we've had one good season? Which of these do you think was the bigger statistical aberration: our Final Four run or your Sweet 16 run? We had 29 wins and an NIT Championship two years ago, one other Final Four, four runs to at least the Elite 8, five runs to at least the Sweet 16 -- UNI hasn't had another season with more than 23 wins since the 50's in DII and only has one other NCAA win in program history. Who had the one good season?

This is a comparison you aren't going to win. You should stop.


Thank you for all of the statistics. You assuredly spent many hours putting this together, and we all appreciate that. I congratulate the Shockers on the fabulous run they have put together.

That being said, it was not me who said anything about WSU having one good season. It was DrWu, and he said it in reference to UNI, which is where my response was directed. Nice try though.
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Re: Early Valley Predictions

Postby valleychamp » May 6th, 2013, 7:22 pm

Aargh wrote:UNI's NCAA tourney wins in their entire history in D1 basketball: 3

WSU's NCAA tourney wins in 2013: 4

With SIU fans jumping into this discussion, SIU's legacy is a proud decade followed by Chris Lowery and looking up at mediocrity. SIU's national respect level is still above UNI's. SIU's multiple S16 runs are recent enough that it still registers with college BB fans.



Yep, garbage program with a laughable reputation.
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Re: Early Valley Predictions

Postby valleychamp » May 6th, 2013, 7:29 pm

2livewu wrote:
valleychamp wrote:Nope, you're right. UNI has proven time and time again it can't compete "with the big boys". 5 NCAA's in 9 years, countless wins over big time programs like Kansas, Indiana, UNLV, New Mexico, LSU, Iowa, Iowa State, etc. You know, just catching them all "on a bad day".



Ultimate Fail=Trying to mix in INDIANA when they were as bad as anyone in the country and hope nobody notices. 3-15 in the Big10 12-20 overall. Too funny. And Iowa? Was that the Iowa team UNI lost to this year or the UNI team that lost to IOWA in 10-11? Seems like outside of KU, you caught BAD teams on bad days.

You're just proving my point over and over. UNI is never going to compete when it matters on the big stage for all the reasons I've stated. They're not alone, you're just one of the few saps trying to convince yourself that they do.



lol, ok. Who would you like to use as an example then?

Because there are dozens. Whether it be BCS programs, power mid-major programs, or NCAA tournament teams, UNI competes against these programs every single year and they have defeated a lot of those teams.

Saying that UNI will never be able to compete on a big stage is incomprehensibly stupid, when all of the evidence points to the contrary.
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