Saturday Feb 6

[Redhawk]

Never declared myself happy with ISUr overall season or second place standing.
I just said that the Birds have upgraded their lineup with more athleticism and length to better compete with WSU.
Which has brought them from a .500 team 2 years ago, a 3rd place finish to 2 top 10 teams last year and 2nd this year.
That's improvement but I won't be satisfied until they are good enough to win the valley and get an at large bid!

[Redbirdgrad]

You view second place, three games behind WSU as a gold metal instead of seeing your inadequacy. If you see it that way, you are sad instead of happy.

You're generalizing here. I agreed with every other aspect of your post until this one.

I don't think true Redbird fans are relishing the fact that we're tied for 2nd place and thinking that our season is now won and overwith because we beat Wichita. We've done that before... old news. We're one of the few that's proven we can beat them. I think what you're seeing is the frustration of a fan base that's had a few bad breaks their way:

1 - losing a PG who followed a coach to an awful coach in waiting position behind a corrupt coach...
2 - losing a C to a Big 10 team
3 - losing an assistant coach way to early in his life who happened to be our head recruiter after Dana left

Not throwing out excuses... just being real... we've underachieved GREATLY in the past few years with a lot of talent on the roster and nothing to show for it but a few solid NIT wins... yippee.

I think the fact that it's Wichita, who is supported by idiots like Championz who takes every chance he can to slander the Birds and spout off his nonsense, is what brings people "out of the woodwork" to rub it in when that victory does come up. But we've seen this story before in the Valley. Teams rise, and then they fall... hard. And the joy from the rest of the Valley is directly proportional to the noise from the idiots supporting those teams while they're on the top. Look at me go... now I'm generalizing. But when your lead idiot is so far off base in everything he says, it's very hard not to. There's a definite chink in the armor of Wichita State, and it's the "fifth best team" that Championz is scared of.

The majority of pro-ISU posts in this thread wouldn't be here if it wasnt' for the S&@! we have to hear from a few Shocker fans during every other part of the year. But you know what the best part is? No matter how much we've heard it in the past 12 months... we've woken up the next morning on the right side of the outcome and shockernet has exploded the last 2 times. Are we where we want to be as a program? Absolutely not. I'd be as delusional as championz if I said this is where we want to be... storming the court against other teams. No, I'd rather be supporting the team that's waking up with an NCAA tourney appearance still ahead of them. When will it happen? Who knows... but I'll tell you I'll enjoy each and every victory over the Shockers due to the stupidity of some of their fanbase.

[BirdsEyeView]

These WSU fans and the random Bradley fan are MAKING THIS THE TOPIC OF DISCUSSION.

We were not talking about this at all. Only that our athletic, long players match up best against WSU. Stop changing the subject to put Redbird fans down again with their record.

A simple "Yes, we agree. The facts are there that ISUr is the toughest matchup for WSU right now" would suffice.

[Redhawk]

These WSU fans and the random Bradley fan are MAKING THIS THE TOPIC OF DISCUSSION.

We were not talking about this at all. Only that our athletic, long players match up best against WSU. Stop changing the subject to put Redbird fans down again with their record.

A simple "Yes, we agree. The facts are there that ISUr is the toughest matchup for WSU right now" would suffice.

[BirdsEyeView]

In the two years since ISUr has upgraded their length and athleticism by adding Hawkins, Mac, and DAP
they have gone 2-2 against WSU. The margin of Shocker victory over the Birds is 8 @ Koch and 6 at RA. They have given the Shockers more trouble than any team in the Valley. The game @ WSU should be just as competitive as the past four.

How has that upgraded lenth and athleticism helped ISUr overall in the league? Bringing it two times a year versus Wichita is great--but there are 16 other league games.

THIS WAS NOT THE TOPIC. He is saying our length/athleticism matches us up well with WSU and arguing Championz and others that we are the "5th scariest team to face WSU". Nothing about record, nothing about the other 16 games. Stop it. You started this and allowed the calvary of WSU fans who were reading and reading until they could find an opening to pounce on us Redbird fans.

They had no argument that we are their toughest matchup UNTIL TribeCalledQuest jumps in and they go "Oooo now lets jump in (MVCFan, Ricardo, etc.) to rip on ISU for their crappy record"

[Stickboy46]

You view second place, three games behind WSU as a gold metal instead of seeing your inadequacy. If you see it that way, you are sad instead of happy.

You're generalizing here. I agreed with every other aspect of your post until this one.

I don't think true Redbird fans are relishing the fact that we're tied for 2nd place and thinking that our season is now won and overwith because we beat Wichita. We've done that before... old news. We're one of the few that's proven we can beat them. I think what you're seeing is the frustration of a fan base that's had a few bad breaks their way:

1 - losing a PG who followed a coach to an awful coach in waiting position behind a corrupt coach...
2 - losing a C to a Big 10 team
3 - losing an assistant coach way to early in his life who happened to be our head recruiter after Dana left

Not throwing out excuses... just being real... we've underachieve GREATLY in the past few years with a lot of talent on the roster and nothing to show for it but a few solid NIT wins... yippee.

I think the fact that it's Wichita, who is supported by idiots like Championz who takes every chance he can to slander the Birds and spout off his nonsense, is what brings people "out of the woodwork" to rub it in when that victory does come up. But we've seen this story before in the Valley. Teams rise, and then they fall... hard. And the joy from the rest of the Valley is directly proportional to the noise from the idiots supporting those teams while they're on the top. Look at me go... now I'm generalizing. But when your lead idiot is so far off base in everything he says, it's very hard not to. There's a definite chink in the armor of Wichita State, and it's the "fifth best team" that Championz is scared of.

The majority of pro-ISU posts in this thread wouldn't be here if it wasnt' for the S&@! we have to hear from a few Shocker fans during every other part of the year. But you know what the best part is? No matter how much we've heard it in the past 12 months... we've woken up the next morning on the right side of the outcome and shockernet has exploded the last 2 times. Are we where we want to be as a program? Absolutely not. I'd be as delusional as championz if I said this is where we want to be... storming the court against other teams. No, I'd rather be supporting the team that's waking up with an NCAA tourney appearance still ahead of them. When will it happen? Who knows... but I'll tell you I'll enjoy each and every victory over the Shockers due to the stupidity of some of their fanbase.

Championz is over the top yes, but lets step back from our alliances and be realistic. You have a team that has gone 50-3 in the conference over the last three years. Should they not hold a "little" bit of an elitist attitude or contempt towards the rest of the league? A league that has had ONE team not named WSU make the NCAAs in the last 3 years (assuming WSU wins Arch Madness this year). It gets annoying to have every team "super bowl" you and throw out every promotion/idea possible when WSU comes to town in a league where even just ONE loss can possibly cause you to miss the tournament. WSU had a Top 10 SOS coming in to conference play. It appears the overall SOS will end up between 100-150 ... That's pathetic. Why can't you play up for EVERY game, and not just Wichita. If teams were consistently better year round, you wouldn't see as much of this on the boards. Right now its just everyone trying to spoil WSU rather than trying to do something for themselves.

As far as ISU-WSU. Yes, you match up better than just about anytime IF your team shows up to play. The .500 record against WSU the last 2 years, shows that isn't always the case. I think there is a little more contempt there due to a few "dirty" plays over the past few years in their games. (Carmichael karate kick for one)

For those of you that say this isn't relevant to the topic, I disagree. ISU matches up to WSU very well, but part of that is that they play UP very well for WSU, while they disappear against everyone else.

[BirdsEyeView]

Stickboy -

Your hatred should not be towards ISUr. We schedule up - Kentucky, Maryland, TCU, etc etc etc and attempt to keep that SOS up for you in Non-Con. We are the team that attemps to be relevant and schedule that way. We have had a lot of bad luck, starting with Jank leaving that have caused setbacks.

Add Reggie Lynch to this roster - if you don't think we would be 10-2 or 11-1 right now in THIS LEAGUE. You would be wrong, because we would be.

As for those instances in the past...well they are the past. Dana Ford is long gone. The nut punch is long gone. The karate kick is long gone. Why is there still hatred towards us?

By the way, on your Super Bowl comment, I believe we have sold more tickets to the Bradley (2-10) game this coming Sunday than we had for the Shox game last Saturday

[Championz]

You view second place, three games behind WSU as a gold metal instead of seeing your inadequacy. If you see it that way, you are sad instead of happy.

You're generalizing here. I agreed with every other aspect of your post until this one.

I don't think true Redbird fans are relishing the fact that we're tied for 2nd place and thinking that our season is now won and overwith because we beat Wichita. We've done that before... old news. We're one of the few that's proven we can beat them. I think what you're seeing is the frustration of a fan base that's had a few bad breaks their way:

1 - losing a PG who followed a coach to an awful coach in waiting position behind a corrupt coach...
2 - losing a C to a Big 10 team
3 - losing an assistant coach way to early in his life who happened to be our head recruiter after Dana left

Not throwing out excuses... just being real... we've underachieved GREATLY in the past few years with a lot of talent on the roster and nothing to show for it but a few solid NIT wins... yippee.

I think the fact that it's Wichita, who is supported by idiots like Championz who takes every chance he can to slander the Birds and spout off his nonsense, is what brings people "out of the woodwork" to rub it in when that victory does come up. But we've seen this story before in the Valley. Teams rise, and then they fall... hard. And the joy from the rest of the Valley is directly proportional to the noise from the idiots supporting those teams while they're on the top. Look at me go... now I'm generalizing. But when your lead idiot is so far off base in everything he says, it's very hard not to. There's a definite chink in the armor of Wichita State, and it's the "fifth best team" that Championz is scared of.

The majority of pro-ISU posts in this thread wouldn't be here if it wasnt' for the S&@! we have to hear from a few Shocker fans during every other part of the year. But you know what the best part is? No matter how much we've heard it in the past 12 months... we've woken up the next morning on the right side of the outcome and shockernet has exploded the last 2 times. Are we where we want to be as a program? Absolutely not. I'd be as delusional as championz if I said this is where we want to be... storming the court against other teams. No, I'd rather be supporting the team that's waking up with an NCAA tourney appearance still ahead of them. When will it happen? Who knows... but I'll tell you I'll enjoy each and every victory over the Shockers due to the stupidity of some of their fanbase.

Have you talked with Dan Muller about this problem? Seems to really be built up inside of you and taking up a lot of your day-to-day feelings.

Fact is WSU is that team that's rolling off NCAA appearances and Sweet 16s and Valley titles on the regular. Meanwhile, you're celebrating a win over WSU like it's a Final Four appearance.

Perspective.

Be sure to let us all know how bad you're enjoying the month of March when it rolls around. I'll be sure to. Bandie.

[Stickboy46]

Stickboy -

Your hatred should not be towards ISUr. We schedule up - Kentucky, Maryland, TCU, etc etc etc and attempt to keep that SOS up for you in Non-Con. We are the team that attemps to be relevant and schedule that way. We have had a lot of bad luck, starting with Jank leaving that have caused setbacks.

Add Reggie Lynch to this roster - if you don't think we would be 10-2 or 11-1 right now in THIS LEAGUE. You would be wrong, because we would be.

As for those instances in the past...well they are the past. Dana Ford is long gone. The nut punch is long gone. The karate kick is long gone. Why is there still hatred towards us?

By the way, on your Super Bowl comment, I believe we have sold more tickets to the Bradley (2-10) game this coming Sunday than we had for the Shox game last Saturday

Agreed, you scheduled up in comparison to others (Evansville ... looking at you), but something you are doing isn't working. You are capable of playing at high levels, but don't do it enough to be relevant to anything besides being a "bad loss" to the one team in the league in the talk for an at-large. Its still frustrating for the WSU fan base, because a loss to what SHOULD be a good team is just a bad loss because they have no idea how to play to their potential, and only show it against WSU.

As far as those items in the past .. you are correct they are in the past, but they are celebrated on the message boards (especially RBF) as great plays. In fact, the pre-game thread about Saturdays game had 4 videos posted, 2 were from redbird fans, 2 were from Shocker fans. The 2 that RBFs decided to post were the karate kick, and the really hard and possibly dirty screen on Baker (so 2 dirty plays). The 2 videos from Shocker fans were of perfectly legal Tekele Cotton dunks. So the sooner the ISU fanbase stops celebrating those plays, the sooner they will be forgotten.

[Redbirdgrad]

Championz is over the top yes,

Good, I'm glad we agree

but lets step back from our alliances and be realistic. You have a team that has gone 50-3 in the conference over the last three years. Should they not hold a "little" bit of an elitist attitude or contempt towards the rest of the league?

Contempt? Really? Do you understand the definition of contempt?!? Here, I'll help. Besides the legal one (being held in contempt of court), contempt literally means the feeling with which a person regards anything considered mean, vile, or worthless; disdain; scorn. It's also the state of being despised; dishonor; disgraced. You really think Wichita should have this feeling about the Valley? Hell, the Valley went 23 years with different champions between 1983 and 2006 when you started this run you've been on, and you didn't win it from 2006 to 2012 either. So the Valley has been ok without Wichita being on top, and will be ok when it falls off the ladder as well. It's ok, that happens. To have "contempt" for the other teams in a league on which you've often been the whipping boy through various times in your history is completely short sided. We're all happy Wichita is doing well, and it's great for the league, but to say you as a program or fan base should have "contempt" for the rest of us is beyond ridiculous.

A league that has had ONE team not named WSU make the NCAAs in the last 3 years (assuming WSU wins Arch Madness this year).

That's a strong assumption since the Valley Tournament seems to be your kryptonite. See last year's results and the "5th scariest team in the Valley" for reference

It gets annoying to have every team "super bowl" you and throw out every promotion/idea possible when WSU comes to town in a league where even just ONE loss can possibly cause you to miss the tournament.

Slow down Romeo. Didn't you guys just lecture us Redbirds that 1 loss wont break your season? Now why do you get to build arguments around 1 loss in the Valley?!?

WSU had a Top 10 SOS coming in to conference play. It appears the overall SOS will end up between 100-150 ... That's pathetic.

I agree. The Valley has been very down... but it hasn't always been that way. If you know your Valley history you'll know you just happen to be dominating in a time in which the Valley in uncharacteristically down. But maybe that's why you're dominating... maybe it isn't you.. it's us?!?

Why can't you play up for EVERY game, and not just Wichita. If teams were consistently better year round, you wouldn't see as much of this on the boards. Right now its just everyone trying to spoil WSU rather than trying to do something for themselves.

You're right. As as matter of fact when we play Evansville on Thursday night the teams are actually going to meet at half court and have a coin flip to see who wins. Why even play the game? It's not Wichita after all. Did you happen to think that teams have to (wait for it) give their best efforts against teams that are the best in the conference?!? When you go out and play in a summer softball league and play against crap teams and those that are better, don't you grip the bat just a little bit tighter or focus a little more in the field against he better teams? It's natural man, that's how we're all wired. Do you think Wichita got up for the Bradley game and played with the same effort as the game you played against Kentucky last year? Come on, I've seen your posts and like you as a poster, you're better than this.

As far as ISU-WSU. Yes, you match up better than just about anytime IF your team shows up to play. The .500 record against WSU the last 2 years, shows that isn't always the case. I think there is a little more contempt there due to a few "dirty" plays over the past few years in their games. (Carmichael karate kick for one)

So you're saying we mailed it in during the 2 games we lost to you? Probably right, we should be 4-0. Thanks for pointing that out. And yes, there have been a fair share of dirty plays on each side. Carmichael kick was the dumbest way I've ever seen us lose a game... even though we may not have lost if the correct shooter was at the line

For those of you that say this isn't relevant to the topic, I disagree. ISU matches up to WSU very well, but part of that is that they play UP very well for WSU, while they disappear against everyone else.

Yep, we've disappeared against every other team we've played. Hence the 1-20 record we currently have.