Wichita State after high profile bigs in 2014

[Redbird Recon]

No one said he was a bad player or even close.
Plenty of kids get offered early then interest falls off.
Like I said earlier, he has not grown to the height many projected.
If he was 2-3 inches taller with his skill set, he would be a 4* Top-50 type center.

[Wufan]

No one said he was a bad player or even close.
Plenty of kids get offered early then interest falls off.
Like I said earlier, he has not grown to the height many projected.
If he was 2-3 inches taller with his skill set, he would be a 4* Top-50 type center.

Would you say he is more in 150-200 range and a 3 star as listed by the recruiting sites? That would be well above the "good, not great" level of an MVC player.

[Redbird Recon]

No one said he was a bad player or even close.
Plenty of kids get offered early then interest falls off.
Like I said earlier, he has not grown to the height many projected.
If he was 2-3 inches taller with his skill set, he would be a 4* Top-50 type center.

Would you say he is more in 150-200 range and a 3 star as listed by the recruiting sites? That would be well above the "good, not great" level of an MVC player.

He's a skilled undersized center who is limited athletically. In the right system he could be a great MVC player. I should have left the "Top-50" comment out, because I haven't seen the entire spectrum. Loyola or Wichita, if you get this player, be excited. I just don't see a player like him fitting into the system at Wichita. He's more in the mold of a UNI player.

[tribecalledquest]

Man are fans sensitive when it comes to recruiting. Good grief.

I never said Bradley knows more than any other school. Recruiting isn't an exact science. Some coaches miss on guys, don't recruit them, and they regret it. Sometimes coaches take kids that they thought would be studs and they flame out.

As I said--Gregg Marshall knows more than I do. I was just sharing my opinion of Sean O'Mara and that of what some of the Bradley coaches thought. It doesn't make me right, the BU coaches right, and, amazingly, it doesn't make Gregg Marshall right either.

[Wufan]

Man are fans sensitive when it comes to recruiting. Good grief.

Reread what I wrote. Not sensitive at all. I was looking for an honest evaluation. I am certainly disappointed that you don't feel he is a top 150 player, but I don't discount you or recon's opinion. I am merely asking why you have the opinion you do. It helps me to better understand. It also helps me to understand why all of the recruiting sites have him as a top 200 (or better) yet fans that have actually seen him play look at him as a 250-350 type player (average Valley recruit).

I really do appreciate the feedback, but saying he's not as good as advertised doesn't really educate me in any way.

[Wufan]

Nevermind. I see MVCfan accidentally included his own opinion in my quote. I missed that.

[tribecalledquest]

Man are fans sensitive when it comes to recruiting. Good grief.

Reread what I wrote. Not sensitive at all. I was looking for an honest evaluation. I am certainly disappointed that you don't feel he is a top 150 player, but I don't discount you or recon's opinion. I am merely asking why you have the opinion you do. It helps me to better understand. It also helps me to understand why all of the recruiting sites have him as a top 200 (or better) yet fans that have actually seen him play look at him as a 250-350 type player (average Valley recruit).

I really do appreciate the feedback, but saying he's not as good as advertised doesn't really educate me in any way.

I honestly put very, very little weight in top 150-200-300 lists. They are fun for fans but there is absolutely no way to make such rankings with any accuracy at all. It's just impossible.

I never said he wasn't "as good as advertised". I just said I didn't think he was a higher level BCS recruit and I didn't think he fit the WSU style. I never know who is even doing the "advertising". I just shared what the Bradley coaches think of him. He may go to WSU, average 15 and 10 against Bradley and they will eat their words.

Put it this way...I trust Gregg Marshall. The idea Marshall likes him gives me more pause than any ranking does. Give me a kid Marshall chose out of the top 150 over a guy in the 150...if that makes sense.

I think outside of the top 40-50 recruits in the nation it's nearly impossible to rank them with any type of accuracy. There is just no way to do it really without basically guessing.

[mvcfan]

I honestly put very, very little weight in top 150-200-300 lists. They are fun for fans but there is absolutely no way to make such rankings with any accuracy at all. It's just impossible.

I never said he wasn't "as good as advertised". I just said I didn't think he was a higher level BCS recruit and I didn't think he fit the WSU style. I never know who is even doing the "advertising". I just shared what the Bradley coaches think of him. He may go to WSU, average 15 and 10 against Bradley and they will eat their words.

Put it this way...I trust Gregg Marshall. The idea Marshall likes him gives me more pause than any ranking does. Give me a kid Marshall chose out of the top 150 over a guy in the 150...if that makes sense.

I think outside of the top 40-50 recruits in the nation it's nearly impossible to rank them with any type of accuracy. There is just no way to do it really without basically guessing.

Marshall likes him because he is good in the low post with his back to the basket, and also a good passer. Marshall likes to isolate the low post one on one and force the other team to double team then pass out to the open guard. We had a 2006 MVC POY at Center with the same size and skill set that was not a great athlete but athletic enough.

[Khan4Cats]

I honestly put very, very little weight in top 150-200-300 lists. They are fun for fans but there is absolutely no way to make such rankings with any accuracy at all. It's just impossible.

I never said he wasn't "as good as advertised". I just said I didn't think he was a higher level BCS recruit and I didn't think he fit the WSU style. I never know who is even doing the "advertising". I just shared what the Bradley coaches think of him. He may go to WSU, average 15 and 10 against Bradley and they will eat their words.

Put it this way...I trust Gregg Marshall. The idea Marshall likes him gives me more pause than any ranking does. Give me a kid Marshall chose out of the top 150 over a guy in the 150...if that makes sense.

I think outside of the top 40-50 recruits in the nation it's nearly impossible to rank them with any type of accuracy. There is just no way to do it really without basically guessing.

Marshall likes him because he is good in the low post with his back to the basket, and also a good passer. Marshall likes to isolate the low post one on one and force the other team to double team then pass out to the open guard. We had a 2006 MVC POY at Center with the same size and skill set that was not a great athlete but athletic enough.

Really? Marshall plays the back to the basket low post player? I guess my take on WSU is that they prefer to try and spread the floor and beat you to gaps with athletes and movement away from the ball. I didn't really get that they used Hall or even Stutz before him in pure back to the basket ways. I'll admit I don't and haven't watched them exclusively but my recollection is more that Stutz came outside a bit more and Hall was often there for screen and rolls and to go get the ball off the glass. I just don't recall WSU being a set piece, inside-out type team. Much more motion and action going on.

That said, Paul Miller was a pretty good low-post back to the basket inside-out player, but that wasn't under Marshall's system either.

Good luck to WSU on landing some of the high profile players. Marshall has done well in the JUCO ranks with high-level, would be nice to see what he could do with four-year players. Then again, maybe it won't be nice to see from an opponent's perspective.

[mvcfan]

Marshall likes him because he is good in the low post with his back to the basket, and also a good passer. Marshall likes to isolate the low post one on one and force the other team to double team then pass out to the open guard. We had a 2006 MVC POY at Center with the same size and skill set that was not a great athlete but athletic enough.

Really? Marshall plays the back to the basket low post player? I guess my take on WSU is that they prefer to try and spread the floor and beat you to gaps with athletes and movement away from the ball. I didn't really get that they used Hall or even Stutz before him in pure back to the basket ways. I'll admit I don't and haven't watched them exclusively but my recollection is more that Stutz came outside a bit more and Hall was often there for screen and rolls and to go get the ball off the glass. I just don't recall WSU being a set piece, inside-out type team. Much more motion and action going on.

That said, Paul Miller was a pretty good low-post back to the basket inside-out player, but that wasn't under Marshall's system either.

Good luck to WSU on landing some of the high profile players. Marshall has done well in the JUCO ranks with high-level, would be nice to see what he could do with four-year players. Then again, maybe it won't be nice to see from an opponent's perspective.

You obviously don't follow the Shockers very much (I don't follow other MVC teams either so that is to be expected). However, Marshall does run several offenses, and lot's of set plays to emphasize the strengths of all of his players. He has the 5's flash out and set screens, and runs options off of this. He has his players flash out and take threes if that is their strength. But he most often utilizes the low post for his 5's and then they are looking for a move and/or to pass out of a double team.

Here is a quote from Stephen Hurt's coach as to how would take advantage of his skills in the Shocker offense.I think it’s a major factor,” DeMeo said. “I think Wichita State would be a great place for him to go. He could step in and be an impact player.”

In addition, former Shocker center Carl Hall came to WSU from Northwest Florida State.

DeMeo, who came to Northwest Florida from Hofstra, watched former Shocker center Garrett Stutz scored 24 points and grab 11 rebounds at Madison Square Garden in the 2011 NIT against Washington State. When he watches WSU, he sees a team that runs plays for its post men.

“He goes to his big guys on a regular basis and he develops them,” DeMeo said. “Not a lot of coaches go to their set pieces on a regular basis. I think their offense is designed for Stephen.”

Hurt proved as a freshman he can play against top competition. He scored 12 points and grabbed 11 rebounds against Kentucky and contributed 15 and 13 at Memphis.

Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/2013/08/24/296198 ... rylink=cpy