Who wins in St. Louis

[Stickboy46]

My comment wasn't to discredit WIlls at all. I just wanted to point out that people don't give Frankamp enough credit for his defense. He's not a liability at all. He's not our best defender (Brown). Though comparing him to someone that is in the conversation for DPOY probably isn't fair either.

He's made huge strides this year. He actually has a positive Steals to Turnover Ratio.. 23 to 18. (only one on the team to do that). Not a defensive stat but his 4.2 Assist to TO ratio is pretty dang impressive too.

I never took it as a discredit. I was just asking a simple question. For example, I could look good guarding a 5th option averaging under 3 points a game too (well maybe not). That was why I was asking.

Realistcally as a 6'1 guard, he's going to be guarding either their smallest guard, or the next smallest if the smallest guy is a volume scorer. In which case, Brown will guard them. So i really don't know if he's guarding their 2nd or 10th best guy.

[2livewu]

Three weeks ago I would have agreed that ISUr had the best starting 5. I'm not so sure now:

1 Lee vs Shamet
2 Wills vs Frankamp
3 McIntosh vs Brown
4 Hawkins vs McDuffie
5 Fayne vs Morris

Tougher call than it used to be.

After 15 games, is there much argument that the 1st All Valley team should come from this group of 10?

[Stickboy46]

Three weeks ago I would have agreed that ISUr had the best starting 5. I'm not so sure now:

1 Lee vs Shamet
2 Wills vs Frankamp
3 McIntosh vs Brown
4 Hawkins vs McDuffie
5 Fayne vs Morris

Tougher call than it used to be.

After 15 games, is there much argument that the 1st All Valley team should come from this group of 10?

There is a good argument for Morgan i think .. other than that .. no.

He leads UNI in PPG, RPG, APG, SPG, BPG. He's the only reason they aren't 0-15 or 2-13 right now (I think they could beat Drake without him, doubt they win any others)

[shockem]

Admittedly, Frankamp usually guards the other team's shortest, slowest, perimeter player, but he's gone from a horrible defensive player (think Blake Ahearn) to a pretty good defensive player. He has very active hands and feet and is pretty good at help defense. Marshall has said recently that he thinks Conner's time at KU set him back developmentally. Frankamp came to WSU a shell of his high school self. Outside of Nurger, he's probably our most improved player.

[Cdizzle]

Three weeks ago I would have agreed that ISUr had the best starting 5. I'm not so sure now:

1 Lee vs Shamet
2 Wills vs Frankamp
3 McIntosh vs Brown
4 Hawkins vs McDuffie
5 Fayne vs Morris

Tougher call than it used to be.

After 15 games, is there much argument that the 1st All Valley team should come from this group of 10?

There is a good argument for Morgan i think .. other than that .. no.

He leads UNI in PPG, RPG, APG, SPG, BPG. He's the only reason they aren't 0-15 or 2-13 right now (I think they could beat Drake without him, doubt they win any others)

Agree with this. Other than Morgan, the more interesting discussions really are amongst comparisons with these 10.

[Redbirds4Life]

1 Lee vs Shamet
2 Wills vs Frankamp
3 McIntosh vs Brown
4 Hawkins vs McDuffie
5 Fayne vs Morris

I want to see this matchup one more time in St. Louis so bad...

[SubGod22]

Admittedly, Frankamp usually guards the other team's shortest, slowest, perimeter player, but he's gone from a horrible defensive player (think Blake Ahearn) to a pretty good defensive player. He has very active hands and feet and is pretty good at help defense. Marshall has said recently that he thinks Conner's time at KU set him back developmentally. Frankamp came to WSU a shell of his high school self. Outside of Nurger, he's probably our most improved player.

I never thought Conner would buy in defensively, which would prevent him from ever being more than a little used role player. But the kid has become a good defender. I thought average at best was his ceiling. Even in HS, they hid him defensively and he'd guard the weakest perimeter player. And that was on a team with very little talent outside of Conner. There was a game earlier this year, and I don't remember which game it was, but Conner actually got assigned to the top guard and did quite well. This was before we started putting Brown and Duff on the PG. He's really become a pretty complete player. I'm not saying his D is all conference worthy, but it's not a weakness either.

I do remember Marshall talking about his time at KU set him back. It appears to be pretty obvious that he wasn't wrong. I'm not saying Self sucks as a coach, but whatever he was doing with Conner was apparently not good.

I wanted Conner to go to Creighton so he could just jack up shots and not worry about defense, but I'm glad that we have him at this point. Confident Conner is a dangerous weapon for the Shox.

[Stickboy46]

Admittedly, Frankamp usually guards the other team's shortest, slowest, perimeter player, but he's gone from a horrible defensive player (think Blake Ahearn) to a pretty good defensive player. He has very active hands and feet and is pretty good at help defense. Marshall has said recently that he thinks Conner's time at KU set him back developmentally. Frankamp came to WSU a shell of his high school self. Outside of Nurger, he's probably our most improved player.

I never thought Conner would buy in defensively, which would prevent him from ever being more than a little used role player. But the kid has become a good defender. I thought average at best was his ceiling. Even in HS, they hid him defensively and he'd guard the weakest perimeter player. And that was on a team with very little talent outside of Conner. There was a game earlier this year, and I don't remember which game it was, but Conner actually got assigned to the top guard and did quite well. This was before we started putting Brown and Duff on the PG. He's really become a pretty complete player. I'm not saying his D is all conference worthy, but it's not a weakness either.

I do remember Marshall talking about his time at KU set him back. It appears to be pretty obvious that he wasn't wrong. I'm not saying Self sucks as a coach, but whatever he was doing with Conner was apparently not good.

I wanted Conner to go to Creighton so he could just jack up shots and not worry about defense, but I'm glad that we have him at this point. Confident Conner is a dangerous weapon for the Shox.

I believe that Marshall said that Self wanted Conner to be a spot up shooter. Someone that just sets at the arch and waits for a pass. Conner is way better with his shot off the dribble it seems.

[Rollbird5]

1 Lee vs Shamet
2 Wills vs Frankamp
3 McIntosh vs Brown
4 Hawkins vs McDuffie
5 Fayne vs Morris

I want to see this matchup one more time in St. Louis so bad...

Screw it, let's see this matchup 2 more times! Once in St Louis and once at the Final four

Us fans can dream can't we??

[LanceShock]

1 Lee vs Shamet
2 Wills vs Frankamp
3 McIntosh vs Brown
4 Hawkins vs McDuffie
5 Fayne vs Morris

I want to see this matchup one more time in St. Louis so bad...

Screw it, let's see this matchup 2 more times! Once in St Louis and once at the Final four

Us fans can dream can't we??

That would be cool!