MVCfans.com - All-MVC teams and honors

[BCPanther]

I would argue that the reason LUC is 0-fer in those close games has a lot to do with Doyle. Any close game inside 3 minutes and he goes to hero-ball. And I haven't seen it work yet this year.

That's why they got beat in Cedar Falls. Throwing up 27 foot step backs with 18 on the clock isn't going to win you many games...

[BirdsEyeView]

I am happy we got snubbed by a player on our own side of the bracket. Gives Hawkins/McIntosh and even Wills and Lee an incentive to shut down Doyle on Saturday (assuming both teams win on Friday), while showcasing their own skills at Arch.

[goramblers2011]

I am happy we got snubbed by a player on our own side of the bracket. Gives Hawkins/McIntosh and even Wills and Lee an incentive to shut down Doyle on Saturday (assuming both teams win on Friday), while showcasing their own skills at Arch.

If being 'snubbed' from some ultimately meaningless postseason award is the incentive they need to (try to) shut Doyle down and not the fact that a loss possibly knocks them off the bubble...well, yeah...I am pretty sure they were fully motivated before being 'snubbed'.

[goramblers2011]

I would argue that the reason LUC is 0-fer in those close games has a lot to do with Doyle. Any close game inside 3 minutes and he goes to hero-ball. And I haven't seen it work yet this year.

That's why they got beat in Cedar Falls. Throwing up 27 foot step backs with 18 on the clock isn't going to win you many games...

That's not the only reason we lost in Cedar Falls....

[Blers]

Wasn't really trying to argue any points just saying how he could get it when you look at the whole season. He did play awful against UNI. That's the worst I've ever seen him play in 4 years. And I don't recall exactly (not sarcasm) but who was drawing the fouls from Wills? I thought he had a great game @ WSU going for 23-8-7; and played very well @ISUr. But i'll give you he didn't play well at home against those teams. Worth noting always passed well and in some of those poor games he passed very well and wasn't rewarded (Custer was 3-14 from deep against WSU this season... and a lot were pretty open shots). Really not trying to convince ya'll (i realize i probably wont), everyone can have their opinion. I just watched all Doyle's games and have a pretty full picture of what voters may see.

On the same token I could point to Alize Johnson weak performances against UNI, Evansville, and Bradley as well as 2 pretty poor games against ISUr and WSU (offset by two pretty good ones). I think it's dumb to hold him just to those performances. I definitely think he's deserving based on the whole season; but he still occasionally struggled vs lower competition which contributed to losses while also having two rough games against the tougher competition looking at stats alone (how in the hell did he only get 7 points and 7 rebounds against Chicago State??).

Ultimate moral of the story is Hawkins lost his shot at first team by being an idiot. The five on top all seem to be stand up guys. Tough stuff, but ultimately the individual awards shouldn't be the final goal.

[BirdsEyeView]

I am happy we got snubbed by a player on our own side of the bracket. Gives Hawkins/McIntosh and even Wills and Lee an incentive to shut down Doyle on Saturday (assuming both teams win on Friday), while showcasing their own skills at Arch.

If being 'snubbed' from some ultimately meaningless postseason award is the incentive they need to (try to) shut Doyle down and not the fact that a loss possibly knocks them off the bubble...well, yeah...I am pretty sure they were fully motivated before being 'snubbed'.

You clearly have never coached a high level team in a sport before. Any perceived slight is a major motivator for individuals, beyond team goals.

[Cdizzle]

I am happy we got snubbed by a player on our own side of the bracket. Gives Hawkins/McIntosh and even Wills and Lee an incentive to shut down Doyle on Saturday (assuming both teams win on Friday), while showcasing their own skills at Arch.

If being 'snubbed' from some ultimately meaningless postseason award is the incentive they need to (try to) shut Doyle down and not the fact that a loss possibly knocks them off the bubble...well, yeah...I am pretty sure they were fully motivated before being 'snubbed'.

You clearly have never coached a high level team in a sport before. Any perceived slight is a major motivator for individuals, beyond team goals.

Indeed.

Another reason I'm glad to have Landry Shamet on my team this weekend.

[BirdsEyeView]

Wasn't really trying to argue any points just saying how he could get it when you look at the whole season. He did play awful against UNI. That's the worst I've ever seen him play in 4 years. And I don't recall exactly (not sarcasm) but who was drawing the fouls from Wills? I thought he had a great game @ WSU going for 23-8-7; and played very well @ISUr. But i'll give you he didn't play well at home against those teams. Worth noting always passed well and in some of those poor games he passed very well and wasn't rewarded (Custer was 3-14 from deep against WSU this season... and a lot were pretty open shots). Really not trying to convince ya'll (i realize i probably wont), everyone can have their opinion. I just watched all Doyle's games and have a pretty full picture of what voters may see.

On the same token I could point to Alize Johnson weak performances against UNI, Evansville, and Bradley as well as 2 pretty poor games against ISUr and WSU (offset by two pretty good ones). I think it's dumb to hold him just to those performances. I definitely think he's deserving based on the whole season; but he still occasionally struggled vs lower competition which contributed to losses while also having two rough games against the tougher competition looking at stats alone (how in the hell did he only get 7 points and 7 rebounds against Chicago State??).

Ultimate moral of the story is Hawkins lost his shot at first team by being an idiot. The five on top all seem to be stand up guys. Tough stuff, but ultimately the individual awards shouldn't be the final goal.

Defending your guy. Understandable. I would too.

[Rambler63]

McIntosh a little unlucky with the injury.

Doyle had an injury in his sophomore year that eliminated the second half of his sophomore year and severely affected his junior year. Nobody talked about bad luck.

Yet despite missing almost half his sophomore year and still being affected by the injury in his junior year, he's currently got 1601 career points. For comparison, Ron Baker had 1636 points in his career. Doyle also has more career assists than any other player in the league besides Paris Lee (he's 16 assists behind), and has racked up the 15th most assists in the MVC since 1992-93.

This season, he's 2nd in total points scored, 3rd in points per game, 2nd in steals, 3rd in assists, 11th in blocks, and 13th in rebounds. If you're in to alternative metrics, he's 6th in player efficiency, 7th in effective field goal percentage, and 4th in usage percentage. Statistically or with an eye test, there isn't a more versatile player in the league.

Expanding his stat line against the BEST teams in the conference with the best defenders in the league (WSU/ISUr), Doyle was 20 for 60 from the field. 33%. And was 0-4.

Have you performed the same analysis across the board, comparing your favorite players only against the top teams in the league? Paris Lee was 5-for-19 against Loyola, 26%. He was 5-for-21 against Wichita State, 23.8%.

[Cdizzle]

Doyle had an injury in his sophomore year that eliminated the second half of his sophomore year and severely affected his junior year. Nobody talked about bad luck.

Plenty of people have talked about the unfortunate luck Doyle has had with injuries.

Yet despite missing almost half his sophomore year and still being affected by the injury in his junior year, he's currently got 1601 career points. For comparison, Ron Baker had 1636 points in his career. Doyle also has more career assists than any other player in the league besides Paris Lee (he's 16 assists behind), and has racked up the 15th most assists in the MVC since 1992-93.

Where did the 92-93' thing come from? Career numbers shouldn't matter much (if at all) for this argument anyway, but you don't want to go down the Ron Baker comparison street. Ron Baker played 3+ years and won 3x as many NCAA tournament games(9) than he lost regular season conference games(3).

This season, he's 2nd in total points scored, 3rd in points per game, 2nd in steals, 3rd in assists, 11th in blocks, and 13th in rebounds. If you're in to alternative metrics, he's 6th in player efficiency, 7th in effective field goal percentage, and 4th in usage percentage. Statistically or with an eye test, there isn't a more versatile player in the league.

Hawkins, McIntosh, McDuffie, Johnson, Morgan are all more versatile than Doyle.