MVC targeting Valpo & Murray State to create 11 team league

[Racerhistory]

I'm not sure of the technology we have at our disposal, but I do know that I've been able to stream Murray State Games in HD (or near-HD) quality on the OVC Digital Network for the last couple of years. They have had streaming services longer than that, but prior to a 2 or 3 years ago, it was pretty poor quality. Much better now!

Also- the idea of Belmont and Murray State both joining the MVC is the most attractive to me. That said, I think the OVC would do nearly anything to keep that from happening. The OVC would be lost without the likes of Murray and Belmont. Their flagship would become Morehead State, Eastern Kentucky, or maybe Austin Peay- all of which have good programs, but the fanbases aren't quite as enthusiastic as Murray or Belmont's.

I can tell you first hand, Murray's tech game is solid.

I would hardly call Belmont's fan base enthusiastic.

As for the OVC, I'd bet they have someone trying to eavesdrop on that meeting today.

[Mikovio]

I'm in the minority here in that I pushed for Loyola last time and I still think it was the right decision. They made a pledge at the time to invest in their program. Their basketball budget stands at 5th in the Valley and they renovated the Gentile. The jury's still out though because, unfortunately, Porter Moser has done just enough to not get fired. The test will come when they have to axe him and decide how much they're willing to pay for the next guy. You can talk about attendance figures and academics but the difference between a good Wichita and bad Wichita is shelling out for Gregg Marshall. He didn't just fall into their lap-- they had to go out and get him. If Loyola is willing to spend big they're capable of dominating this conference and the sellouts will come.

It's all about what a school has and what they're willing to spend.

So I've put together these rankings of the mentioned expansion schools by endowment (financial health of the overall institution), men's basketball coach salary (what they're willing to pay the guy leading their program) and their overall program budget.

Endowment
UI-Chicago, $2.3B
UM-Kansas City, $1.12B
Denver, $607M
North Dakota, $231M
South Dakota, $214M
Valparaiso, $204M
UW-Milwaukee, $201M
NDSU, $138M
SDSU, $105M
Belmont, $91M
Murray State, $67M

Men's basketball head coach salary
Belmont, Rick Byrd, $709,000
Valparaiso, Bryce Drew, $377,464
UI-Chicago, Steve McClain, $375,000
Murray State, Matt McMahon, $350,000
UW-Milwaukee, LaVall Jordan $350,000
Denver, Rodney Billups (Unknown, but former coach Joe Scott made $300,000 in 2010)
SDSU, TJ Otzelberger, $300,000
UM-Kansas City, Kareem Richardson, $250,000
South Dakota, Craig Smith, $190,000
NDSU, Saul Philips, $175,000
North Dakota, Brian Jones, $100,000

Men's basketball program budget
Denver, $3,361,111
Belmont, $2,951,040
UW-Milwaukee, $2,877,237
Valparaiso, $2,666,213
UI-Chicago, $2,231,609
Murray State, $2,218,712
UM-Kansas City, $1,815,762
SDSU, $1,443,001
NDSU, $1,417,450
North Dakota, $1,579,108
South Dakota, $1,156,551


A few comments.

UIC, UWM and UMKC figures for endowment and to an extent salary and budget are misleading because they don't fully control their own finances. For instance, UIC needed approval from the UI board of trustees to hire Steve McClain. If one of these schools gets too ambitious the parent schools could choke off their growth.

NDSU and SDSU have money, okay, but they don't spend it on basketball. Next.

Denver seems like a great add, if Valley presidents would spring for the travel costs.

Belmont and Murray State are cash poor schools that care a lot about basketball.

Valparaiso is a well rounded somewhat conservative choice. Maybe best overall.

My picks are in this order: 1. Denver, 2. Valparaiso, 3. Belmont, 4. (Tie) Murray State and UW-Milwaukee

[squirrel]

UIC, UWM and UMKC figures for endowment and to an extent salary and budget are misleading because they don't fully control their own finances. For instance, UIC needed approval from the UI board of trustees to hire Steve McClain. If one of these schools gets too ambitious the parent schools could choke off their growth.

See: UAB and Nebraska-Omaha football

[tribecalledquest]

I've been all in on Belmont but the more I've read about the school, fans, etc. I'm not sure I am as sold as I once was. That program is all Rick Byrd. If he leaves what happens?? I know MANY places can say this. I get it. But they haven't been D1 that long, they really don't draw well and they aren't spending a ton of money.

I guess I'm more nervous about them than I was before. I am probably the only one on here who likes UIC. I do like Murray State as well. Not UMKC. Not Omaha.

SEMO makes a ton of sense except the fact they never win in basketball.

[Mikovio]

UIC, UWM and UMKC figures for endowment and to an extent salary and budget are misleading because they don't fully control their own finances. For instance, UIC needed approval from the UI board of trustees to hire Steve McClain. If one of these schools gets too ambitious the parent schools could choke off their growth.

See: UAB and Nebraska-Omaha football

Imagine if Wichita State's budget was controlled by the University of Kansas Board of Regents. Think they'd approve Wichita spending seven figures to hire this Winthrop coach?

Former Bradley president David Broski was chancellor of UIC and was forced out because UIC was taking too many incoming undergrads from Urbana Champaign.

Despite that though the idea of UW-Milwaukee is intriguing to me. College basketball in Wisconsin seems undersaturated and it would be great to get Valley games televised throughout Wisconsin. It's anecdotal but my cheesehead relatives seem more abreast of UWM than I'd expect.

[rlh04d]

You can talk about attendance figures and academics but the difference between a good Wichita and bad Wichita is shelling out for Gregg Marshall. He didn't just fall into their lap-- they had to go out and get him.

That's an interesting statement, because Marshall actually did kind of fall into Wichita State's lap, because of attendance figures:

So when Mark Turgeon in 2007 left Wichita State and the MVC (as good coaches usually do), Elgin got on the phone and did the best recruiting job of his career.

“You really ought to take a look at this job,” Elgin told Marshall. “They sell out for the season.”

http://www.cbssports.com/college-basket ... ita-state/

Think they'd approve Wichita spending seven figures to hire this Winthrop coach?

I get your point, but Marshall was hired for $750k.

[Mikovio]

You can talk about attendance figures and academics but the difference between a good Wichita and bad Wichita is shelling out for Gregg Marshall. He didn't just fall into their lap-- they had to go out and get him.

That's an interesting statement, because Marshall actually did kind of fall into Wichita State's lap, because of attendance figures:

So when Mark Turgeon in 2007 left Wichita State and the MVC (as good coaches usually do), Elgin got on the phone and did the best recruiting job of his career.

“You really ought to take a look at this job,” Elgin told Marshall. “They sell out for the season.”

http://www.cbssports.com/college-basket ... ita-state/

Think they'd approve Wichita spending seven figures to hire this Winthrop coach?

I get your point, but Marshall was hired for $750k.

Attendance and charter flights are a nice perk and correlate with good salaries but you can't pay the bills with attendance. Of course not many coaches are just going to say "I wanted to come to ____ because they doubled my salary. Great to be here!"

Anyway, $750k is more than any of the expansion candidates are paying their coaches. Rick Byrd comes close, but the question is whether Belmont will continue that level of commitment after he leaves or make a low profile hire and save some cash. $750k gets you a proven coach of the year type in a lower profile conference. $200-300k gets you an assistant cutting his teeth. If Belmont struggles with attendance there may be legitimate concern they will feel the need cut back to balance the athletic department books.

[rlh04d]

Attendance and charter flights are a nice perk and correlate with good salaries but you can't pay the bills with attendance. Of course not many coaches are just going to say "I wanted to come to ____ because they doubled my salary. Great to be here!"

Attendance is a "nice perk" ? You might want to look into Wichita St.'s required SASO donations for season tickets. You realize that the nearly 11k Wichita averages per game are paying large amounts of money to have those seats? Attendance isn't just about having a nice game atmosphere -- Wichita makes a significant amount of money off of that attendance, with ticket prices and required SASO donations increasingly regularly.

And what do you pay the bills with that don't have a direct correlation to attendance? Most donors aren't going to donate to a program that doesn't have an engaged fanbase, because most donors are fans themselves, and typically are engaged as part of the crowd. Corporate donors/sponsors are directly targeting an engaged fanbase for marketing purposes. Koch's name isn't on the WSU arena because they're such big basketball fans.

There were other schools that would have paid Marshall as much as Wichita did when he first came, and plenty since he came that would have paid him more. At no point has Wichita ever out-bid anyone for him, except Winthrop, that I recall. The money is a large part of why they've kept him, but they would not have the money without the attendance, and Marshall would have taken the higher salaries from a number of other schools if it wasn't for the fanbase.

[AndShock]

USF (a Big East school at the time) offered Marshall $800k the same offseason he took the Wichita State job. He probably decided on WSU because he got tricked into thinking he could win at Wichita State right away, but I'm sure support had a lot to do with it too.

[Mikovio]

Attendance and charter flights are a nice perk and correlate with good salaries but you can't pay the bills with attendance. Of course not many coaches are just going to say "I wanted to come to ____ because they doubled my salary. Great to be here!"

Attendance is a "nice perk" ? You might want to look into Wichita St.'s required SASO donations for season tickets. You realize that the nearly 11k Wichita averages per game are paying large amounts of money to have those seats? Attendance isn't just about having a nice game atmosphere -- Wichita makes a significant amount of money off of that attendance, with ticket prices and required SASO donations increasingly regularly.

And what do you pay the bills with that don't have a direct correlation to attendance? Most donors aren't going to donate to a program that doesn't have an engaged fanbase, because most donors are fans themselves, and typically are engaged as part of the crowd. Corporate donors/sponsors are directly targeting an engaged fanbase for marketing purposes. Koch's name isn't on the WSU arena because they're such big basketball fans.

There were other schools that would have paid Marshall as much as Wichita did when he first came, and plenty since he came that would have paid him more. At no point has Wichita ever out-bid anyone for him, except Winthrop, that I recall. The money is a large part of why they've kept him, but they would not have the money without the attendance, and Marshall would have taken the higher salaries from a number of other schools if it wasn't for the fanbase.

Okay but in terms of a coach's perspective, I think most would rather get paid $1M and coach in front of 5k instead of $500k to coach in front of 10k. Marshall did take a $50k haircut there in '08 to go to Wichita instead of basketball dead USF, but he would've been crazy to turn down much more.

I say attendance correlates to high coaches salaries because not every athletic department is going to pour that ticket and donation revenue back into coaches salaries. There's always plenty of other needs like tennis court resurfacing. So attendance for me is useful not not as useful as the metrics I laid out. How much do they have, how much do they spend, where do they spend it.