MVC targeting Valpo & Murray State to create 11 team league

[tribecalledquest]

For hating everything about the MVC there sure are a lot of Dakota fans that spend a lot of their day posting/reading this place.

Someone has to correct the inaccurate information put out by UNI fans. Now carry on with the blame the Dakota's theme.

I don't hate or blame the Dakota's. I do think some "Dakota fans" think they know more about the MVC than they do. See this quote from you:

"Keep pretending that the MVC leadership isn't what it is. A group of small private schools who don't want to improve along with a few public schools who have money issues and a couple other public who are frustrated."

Where have you ever seen where the privates "don't want to improve?" This talking point has been out there but it's not backed up by anything. How do you have any idea the mindset of places like Indiana State, Southern Illinois, or Missouri State?

I think the Dakota schools have alot to offer. Probably not the the MVC but that's fine. Making it sound like everyone in the MVC is just sitting around and hoping to go D3 is ridiculous.

[RoyalShock]

If Elgin is blameless and has no power (and maybe that is true), then what is the point of paying someone $300k+ for his useless position? He had no problem taking credit when things were going well.

"Another smaller league had great success in that same tournament: the Missouri Valley Conference. Bradley and Wichita State made surprising round-of-16 runs, and two other schools also made the tournament, for eight units, or $10.2 million over the next six years.

Missouri Valley Commissioner Doug Elgin’s compensation increased 40 percent over the life of that payout, from $224,250 in 2006 to $316,269 in 2012, according to conference tax records. Elgin defended his compensation and, unlike Yeager, said it was absolutely tied to the success of his conference’s basketball performance.

“I would hope that when the CEO of a business, when their return is off the charts, that their compensation is commensurate with performance,” said Elgin."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics ... caa-money/

I'm sure he's a part of the process, but he's not responsible for the final decision of extending an invitation and as such should not be blamed if the university presidents trip over their own feet.

The rest of your post is a red herring to this discussion. Someone has to run things in the 17 out of 20 years the MVC isn't changing its membership. Is that worth $316k per year? I don't know. He did preside over the best decade the MVC has seen since the 60s/70s and was instrumental in bringing Marshall to WSU, paving the way for our exit to The American.

There, I probably just made him even more enemies among the remaining fanbases.

But your own post then gives him credit for 'running things for 17 years.' Either the man/position can impact the results of the conference, or he/it can't. It's not a red herring at all. Even IF you exclude membership changes from the list of responsibilities, the commissioner position was still netting terrible results for the last decade, which is either the commissioner's fault because the commissioner is not good at the job, or the position is of very little use.

I think it's disingenuous to give credit to the commissioner for the strength of the league in the 2000s and then absolve him of responsibility of the weakness of the league in the 2010s. I don't have enough information about the inner-workings of the league office and university presidents to argue strongly one way or another, but I don't think it's reasonable for people to argue both sides.

If he should not be blamed for the president's not making a good addition then by the same logic he should also not be praised and paid for president's doing things like building new arenas, hiring good coaches and winning tournament games.

You're basically saying that in regards to conference membership, Elgin should be held accountable for the decision(s) of his superiors. I hope I never work in such an environment. My argument is hardly disingenuous, as I didn't give him sole credit for the strength of the league in the 2000s. You put words in my mouth. I said he presided over the league during that time. He fostered an environment that allowed others to be successful. He deserves credit for that.

My point wasn't to argue his overall job performance but to say he can't be held solely responsible - as many on this form are trying to do when they only mention/blame him and not their own university presidents - for who does or doesn't get invited to the league. We don't know enough about the internal processes anyway. But we do know what schools the presidents visited and that they get to pick.

I will reconsider my argument if it comes out that Elgin demanded a maximum membership of 10 schools.

[Mikovio]

Lol @ "A group of small private schools who don't want to improve". Four of the top 5 basketball budgets in the Valley are private, and if Valpo is indeed in, make that 5 of the top 6.

http://www.sycamorepride.com/showthread ... -in-at-208

121) Bradley University 3,128,419
132) University of Northern Iowa 2,899,699
133) University of Evansville 2,899,667
139) Loyola University Chicago 2,745,553
143) Valparaiso University 2,666,213
153) Drake University 2,472,212
156) Illinois State University 2,452,961
171) Missouri State University-Springfield 2,279,917
175) Southern Illinois University-Carbondale 2,241,413
208) Indiana State University 1,832,975
278) North Dakota State University-Main Campus 1,417,450

Granted, some of that for BU and UE is renting an off campus facility but then again, if they didn't want to improve they'd move back on campus. BU has a nice new 4k seat arena dedicated to womens bball and volleyball.

How do you measure "wanting to improve"?

[jacksfan29]

Lol @ "A group of small private schools who don't want to improve". Four of the top 5 basketball budgets in the Valley are private, and if Valpo is indeed in, make that 5 of the top 6.

http://www.sycamorepride.com/showthread ... -in-at-208

121) Bradley University 3,128,419
132) University of Northern Iowa 2,899,699
133) University of Evansville 2,899,667
139) Loyola University Chicago 2,745,553
143) Valparaiso University 2,666,213
153) Drake University 2,472,212
156) Illinois State University 2,452,961
171) Missouri State University-Springfield 2,279,917
175) Southern Illinois University-Carbondale 2,241,413
208) Indiana State University 1,832,975
278) North Dakota State University-Main Campus 1,417,450

Granted, some of that for BU and UE is renting an off campus facility but then again, if they didn't want to improve they'd move back on campus. BU has a nice new 4k seat arena dedicated to womens bball and volleyball.

How do you measure "wanting to improve"?

You can add a minimum of close to $500K to your budget for full ride scholarships. What does it cost to attend Loyola per year? How about Drake, Bradley? But hey, if it really is apples to apples may I suggest you do a better job of spending. I believe it was a UNI poster who stated the public schools have won 24 of the last 26 major sports championships. Not a very good return on those dollars your spending.

[tribecalledquest]

Lol @ "A group of small private schools who don't want to improve". Four of the top 5 basketball budgets in the Valley are private, and if Valpo is indeed in, make that 5 of the top 6.

http://www.sycamorepride.com/showthread ... -in-at-208

121) Bradley University 3,128,419
132) University of Northern Iowa 2,899,699
133) University of Evansville 2,899,667
139) Loyola University Chicago 2,745,553
143) Valparaiso University 2,666,213
153) Drake University 2,472,212
156) Illinois State University 2,452,961
171) Missouri State University-Springfield 2,279,917
175) Southern Illinois University-Carbondale 2,241,413
208) Indiana State University 1,832,975
278) North Dakota State University-Main Campus 1,417,450

Granted, some of that for BU and UE is renting an off campus facility but then again, if they didn't want to improve they'd move back on campus. BU has a nice new 4k seat arena dedicated to womens bball and volleyball.

How do you measure "wanting to improve"?

You can add a minimum of close to $500K to your budget for full ride scholarships. What does it cost to attend Loyola per year? How about Drake, Bradley? But hey, if it really is apples to apples may I suggest you do a better job of spending. I believe it was a UNI poster who stated the public schools have won 24 of the last 26 major sports championships. Not a very good return on those dollars your spending.

Is it surprising that, generally, public schools do better in sports than private schools? People act like this is something new...or something new to the Missouri Valley Conference. It has been that way for years. Now, up until recently MBB was not that way. Bradley, Creighton, Tulsa won a ton in the past.

Let's not equate recent play on the court with "not caring". Yes, the ROI for MBB has not been good for the privates....with Bradley leading the way. But it doesn't mean the effort isn't there.

And, quite frankly, bringing up any other sport than MBB is a red herring. It is a 100% complete non factor in any of this. No one, outside of a few who follow those programs, care. The MVC could have the top softball conference in the nation but it doesn't matter or move the needle in anyway.

Want to "rip" on the privates---stick to MBB. Don't use softball championships as a reason.

[tribecalledquest]

From 1990 to 2000 Private schools won or shared the title five times in the MVC.

From 2001-2010 they won four titles.

Since 2010 there has only been one title by a private school.

Again, no doubt the MVC private schools have not gotten a good return on their investment for the university or the league--but that's really only been a phenomenon the last 7-8 years.

This is MBB stuff I'm talking about. Someone else can worry about volleyball.

[uniftw]

From 1990 to 2000 Private schools won or shared the title five times in the MVC.

From 2001-2010 they won four titles.

Since 2010 there has only been one title by a private school.

Again, no doubt the MVC private schools have not gotten a good return on their investment for the university or the league--but that's really only been a phenomenon the last 7-8 years.

This is MBB stuff I'm talking about. Someone else can worry about volleyball.

I had the wrong Todd. It was Todd Aaron Golden - ISUb's beat writer. Here is his full Twitter string on it

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Twitter storm warning. Let's talk about the MVC's public-private split for a few minutes. I did a bit of research and it's kind of shocking.

MVC writers have written ad nauseum about the MVC's public-private split. How one camp or another doesn't want to be marginalized.

We write about it because it's a decisive factor in MVC realignment. One camp will prevent the other from having too much voting influence.

Here's the thing ... what on Earth are the MVC private schools doing competitively to justify their voting power? Virtually nothing.

There are four MVC sports where all of the existing nine MVC schools participate in: men's and women's basketball, softball and volleyball.

Here's the public-private split in terms of NCAA Tournament appearances since 2010 from those nine schools

In men's basketball, the remaining five public MVC schools account for four NCAA appearances since 2010. The four private schools had zero.

In women's basketball, the five MVC publics have four NCAA Tournament appearances. The four privates account for one appearance.

In softball, the five MVC publics have six NCAA Tournament appearances since 2010. The privates have one NCAA tournament appearance.

In volleyball? The five MVC publics have 12 -- I repeat -- 12 NCAA Tournament appearances since 2010. The privates have zero.

That's a 26-2 split in favor of the remaining public MVC schools versus the private MVC schools in sports in which they directly compete.

It's long past time for MVC privates to flex their muscles on the court/field instead of just in the board room when it comes time to vote.

We hear a lot about MVC schools not carrying their weight. A 26-2 public-private NCAA split says it all about who the guilty parties are.

Four of the five public schools in the MVC has had NCAA Tournament appearances in at least two sports save Southern Illinois since 2010.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The two private school NCAA bids?
Drake basketball this year - an auto bid and UNI got an at large
Bradley softball in 2014


That's it. That is 100% of the private schools NCAA bids in the 4 sports that every MVC school plays.


To be fair to the privates, of the 26 public school bids I think like 11 or 12 of them belong to just one public school - UNI.

[UNIFanSince1983]

From 1990 to 2000 Private schools won or shared the title five times in the MVC.

From 2001-2010 they won four titles.

Since 2010 there has only been one title by a private school.

Again, no doubt the MVC private schools have not gotten a good return on their investment for the university or the league--but that's really only been a phenomenon the last 7-8 years.

This is MBB stuff I'm talking about. Someone else can worry about volleyball.

Out of general curiosity, how many of those titles are won by a team that is still a part of the league?

[MissouriValleyUnite]

Someone needs to notify Todd Golden that no one gives two fucks about any of those other sports.

[tribecalledquest]

Someone needs to notify Todd Golden that no one gives two fucks about any of those other sports.

Right.

And baseball, men's soccer and women's soccer don't matter just because not all nine schools compete in them? Do they matter? No. But neither do the other three.