Updated 1/6/18: MVC Expansion Poll

[BirdsEyeView]

Hello - long time listener, first time caller (Redbirdfan regular)....

I would be all in on NKU - but it seems like the Valley is trying to find schools in big tv markets. While NKU IS in the Cincy market (#34) and doesn't have to compete with the NBA like others would (Denver, Milwaukee) - they DO have to compete with two bigger colleges (Cincy and Xavier). Will that be the case in a decade? Will their fanbase and program grow that big if they get picked up by a bigger conference? Who knows...would the Valley want to take that risk? Dope arena, though!

I would go with SLU first and foremost (if that is a possibility) - prestige, fan base, success, tv market, location all play a role.
Murray State would be my second option - while it isn't in a big tv market (Who covers them? Paducah?), they have the prestige and the name.
Belmont would be third. Big tv market with a struggling P5 school to compete with for tv time, prestige and success.
If you get one of the Dakotas, you'd have to get them all IMO. If that were to happen, then I think the Valley would start taking a serious look at merging with MVFC.

Welcome aboard as well!

[MissouriValleyUnite]

Murray State and Northern Kentucky.

Murray should’ve been added years ago. Two top 25 teams (2012, 2015) and two ncaa wins (2010, 2012) this decade. Racers also have had 2 potential long runs cut short by a possession to the national runnerup (Butler) or champion (Kansas). 29 straight winning seasons that spans several coaches (Gottfried, Cronin, Kennedy, Prohm). One of the better traveling mid major fan bases.

Northern Kentucky made the Tourney in Year 1 of eligibility and gave Kentucky all it could handle for 30 minutes. In year 2, they’re 4-0 in the Horizon with a win at league favorite Oakland. I didn’t settle on NKU until attending a Saturday home game at Milwaukee and then NKU this past month. I was utterly blown away by Northern Kentucky. If you’re on the fence, I highly suggest planning a couple roadtrips to these venues before the season ends. You can doubledip with other games in the area.

[bufan741777]

Murray State and Northern Kentucky.

Murray should’ve been added years ago. Two top 25 teams (2012, 2015) and two ncaa wins (2010, 2012) this decade. Racers also have had 2 potential long runs cut short by a possession to the national runnerup (Butler) or champion (Kansas). 29 straight winning seasons that spans several coaches (Gottfried, Cronin, Kennedy, Prohm). One of the better traveling mid major fan bases.

Northern Kentucky made the Tourney in Year 1 of eligibility and gave Kentucky all it could handle for 30 minutes. In year 2, they’re 4-0 in the Horizon with a win at league favorite Oakland. I didn’t settle on NKU until attending a Saturday home game at Milwaukee and then NKU this past month. I was utterly blown away by Northern Kentucky. If you’re on the fence, I highly suggest planning a couple roadtrips to these venues before the season ends. You can doubledip with other games in the area.

I completely agree with this. I think this would be the idea duo addition to the Valley. It would be good for both the league and the teams. I'm honestly unsure whether we will actually add these teams next year. I think there is a chance it could take a season longer that many people wish but I would rather the Valley get 2 teams like this in a deal that takes time rather than rushing it. If it does happen sooner than later then that would be great!

[mvfcfan]

Article: http://www.valleyhoopsinsider.com/whats ... expansion/

Note: Votes can be changed later.

My vote was Murray State (obviously) and South Dakota State. If SDSU wasn't willing to join because they didn't want to leave the other "Dakota" schools behind then Northern Kentucky would get my #12 vote.

What did NKU do to deserve your 12th vote

Tbh I didn't like NKU at first. I didn't like them solely based on the fact that they were D2 just a few years ago.

However I began researching them. I saw how much success they had had at the D2 level. Then I saw the kind of investment they put into their basketball facility. I'll be honest I've watched a few of their games this year on ESPN3 and I like what I see. Another perk for me is that they are only a three hour drive from Terre Haute, so I could potentially go there for a game if ISU was involved in it.

NKU is by far and away the best non-fb #12 team we can get (even better than Belmont). They just fit in with the rest of the MVC. However if they join the MVC I would like to see them increase their basketball budget. If they were to join today with Murray State they would rank 12th in spending. However with a school that has invested the kind of money they have into their program I think they would increase their budget and I think they would jump all over an MVC offer.

Quite frankly I am all for inviting Northern Kentucky. I also changed my vote from SDSU to NKU because I have little confidence that SDSU would join. Most on their message board oppose it and I can't see them joining without another Dakota school or leaving the Summit Tournament behind (it's in Sioux Falls so they have home court advantage).

I also like the idea of keeping the MVC compact and not spreading out all over the place. It makes travel costs a lot cheaper, makes travel easier for fans, and brings in the potential to have long rivalries.

[bleach]

Look, a teams future potential is worth nothing until realized. WHO is gonna gobble up NKU or for that matter Murray if we don't?
Adding teams that don't raise the current level of the conference just water down the payout to current schools.
I actually like both schools but neither raise the current value. Unless it is a SLU, Dayton, VCU, etc., it is not profitable. I just don't get the value of adding more schools to a usually one bid league. I can see where these teams could win our bid but fail to see multiple bids by adding these teams.

[MissouriValleyUnite]

^ That’s the same argument people used against Butler 10 years ago. They then went to 2 ncaa title games and were snatched up by the A10 and Big East.

Murray State adds value whether it’s contending for at-large bids (2012, 2015) or winning NCAA games to add to a league’s credits (2010, 2012) or travelling to Arch Madness (they outnumber the entire OVC combined in Nashville). Don’t forget if they hadn’t run into the national champion (Kansas) or runnerup (Butler) or a 1 seed (Michigan St in OT) in one possession losses, they’d have even deeper runs in their history. Keep in mind they lose out on top end recruits because of the OVC so their talent level should increase in the MVC to reach these levels again.

Last time we didn’t add a school right under our nose that would raise the value of the league, it burned us. Let’s not make that same mistake again.

[bleach]

^ That’s the same argument people used against Butler 10 years ago. They then went to 2 ncaa title games and were snatched up by the A10 and Big East.

Murray State adds value whether it’s contending for at-large bids (2012, 2015) or winning NCAA games to add to a league’s credits (2010, 2012) or travelling to Arch Madness (they outnumber the entire OVC combined in Nashville). Don’t forget if they hadn’t run into the national champion (Kansas) or runnerup (Butler) or a 1 seed (Michigan St in OT) in one possession losses, they’d have even deeper runs in their history. Keep in mind they lose out on top end recruits because of the OVC so their talent level should increase in the MVC to reach these levels again.

Last time we didn’t add a school right under our nose that would raise the value of the league, it burned us. Let’s not make that same mistake again.

I was unaware Butler wanted in the MVC. Never would have opposed that. Can you provide some info on this?
I also see value in Murray but nobody else. If it must be a 2 for, I don't see that much value in Murray.

[mvfcfan]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics ... caa-money/

If I'm reading this right, since payouts are made every year for 6 years, I think the MVC is getting around $1.67M each year anyways for just 1 bid that loses in the first round. So divide that by 10 and you get $167,000 per school. Divide that by 12 and you get $139,166. That's a $28,000 difference which really isn't that much of a difference. I think some on here are way too concerned with tournament revenue. Adding a solid school like Murray State and another school that is on the rise like NKU is a very small risk (barely any added travel, not really losing any money), with the potential of being a really big gain if we could ever become a multi-bid league again.

If I'm reading that wrong, please correct me, but that's how I understood it anyways.

[bufan741777]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/sports/ncaa-money/

If I'm reading this right, since payouts are made every year for 6 years, I think the MVC is getting around $1.67M each year anyways for just 1 bid that loses in the first round. So divide that by 10 and you get $167,000 per school. Divide that by 12 and you get $139,166. That's a $28,000 difference which really isn't that much of a difference. I think some on here are way too concerned with tournament revenue. Adding a solid school like Murray State and another school that is on the rise like NKU is a very small risk (barely any added travel, not really losing any money), with the potential of being a really big gain if we could ever become a multi-bid league again.

If I'm reading that wrong, please correct me, but that's how I understood it anyways.

You are correct to my understanding. People just feel that more schools will loose us money. If those schools help the Valley to get even one extra bid every 5-8 years that would be a positive. That's not even counting if they win a game!

[VUGrad1314]

Those who are dismissing Northern Kentucky because their potential and market are still their main selling points are missing an important point: This isn't like adding 2013 Loyola or the current versions of UIC Milwaukee SLU or GCU and praying that resources market size and an expanded or renewed commitment to athletics spending might make them a creditable addition in the next five years. This is a program that has succeeded at every level it's played at for decades (SLU and Milwaukee can't say that) and has already shown the ability to challenge P5\AAC level teams WITHOUT MVC level talent. Imagine what they could do WITH it. NKU with MVC level talent would be as good or better than Murray State is now or even as good as any MVC team not named Wichita State has been over the last 10-12 years. In addition, they draw extremely well even for crappy opponents (Belmont and Milwaukee can't say that although Belmont's attendance is okay). On top of all this, they're suitable as a travel partner for Murray State without disrupting the existing pairings. We are sitting on two top quality additions that appear to have the ability to become leading members of this conference in short order and to restore desperately sought after multibid status and some of you are complaining because the wrapping paper on this gift isn't pretty enough. At least open the box and look inside. Would you rather see a conference like the OVC get smart and try to snatch NKU (which might be possible given the collapse of the Horizon League) so that we lose out on Belmont NKU AND Murray State? The time to act is now people. We finally have a program with the makings of a solid 12th member. So let's go.