Updated 1/6/18: MVC Expansion Poll

[mvfcfan]

Just a little history lesson for everyone on North Dakota if anyone cares.

The Big Sky actively tried to get every scholarship FCS school from the western US into their conference. They were pretty much successful. They had the idea in 2012 to expand and try to get North Dakota and South Dakota to join their league (and hoped to later add NDSU and SDSU). Their plan backfired when the MVFC added South Dakota. As a result North Dakota was basically on an island all alone in the Big Sky.

Skip ahead to last year. The Big Sky basically wanted North Dakota to leave and UND wanted to join the Summit League to rejoin the other Dakota schools. In fact the Big Sky even waived North Dakota's exit fee. That's how bad they wanted UND gone.

Actually I'm not sure if anyone is aware of this, but the Big Sky opened the door for New Mexico State to join their league. However NMSU doesn't want to join because they want to keep FBS football. Idaho who was already in the Big Sky for all sports except football took their offer and is dropping down to the FCS level (as a Big Sky member).

So at the end of the day, the Montana and Idaho schools will stay in the Big Sky and the Dakota schools will stay Summit/MVFC. Also a conference cannot just decide to be FBS. There are only two conference that do not currently sponsor FBS football that could sponsor FBS football. Those two conferences are the WAC and the MVC (not MVFC). So if the Dakota schools and Montana schools want to go FBS they would have to join up with New Mexico State do it through the WAC, not the Summit League.

Now let's look ahead to the future of the Summit League. Fort Wayne will most likely join the Horizon League at some point within the next few years. (If the MVC takes NKU then IPFW would probably be the top candidate to take their spot). There are rumors that UMKC might rejoin the Summit League next season. If the MVC takes Murray State I would have to think that Western Illinois could be looked at by the OVC. It would definitely be less travel for WIU and they would already have an instate rival in EIU. So worst case scenario I think the Summit will be down to 7 teams. Maybe they could get Chicago State to come back if they don't shut down.

With that said I think if the MVC invites SDSU, I think SDSU would definitely accept. It would have to be a no brainier for them. The Summit League could get a little better, but the stability of the league long term has to be a little bit of a concern. On the other hand there are plenty of schools (probably lots we wouldn't want either) out there that would jump all over an MVC invite. The Summit is pretty much stuck with whatever they can get right now.

[VUGrad1314]

So if the Dakota schools and Montana schools want to go FBS they would have to join up with New Mexico State do it through the WAC, not the Summit League.

Which I believe has been rumored in some circles though most consider it unlikely.

[UNDfan]

Just a little history lesson for everyone on North Dakota if anyone cares.

The Big Sky actively tried to get every scholarship FCS school from the western US into their conference. They were pretty much successful. They had the idea in 2012 to expand and try to get North Dakota and South Dakota to join their league (and hoped to later add NDSU and SDSU). Their plan backfired when the MVFC added South Dakota. As a result North Dakota was basically on an island all alone in the Big Sky.

Skip ahead to last year. The Big Sky basically wanted North Dakota to leave and UND wanted to join the Summit League to rejoin the other Dakota schools. In fact the Big Sky even waived North Dakota's exit fee. That's how bad they wanted UND gone.

Actually I'm not sure if anyone is aware of this, but the Big Sky opened the door for New Mexico State to join their league. However NMSU doesn't want to join because they want to keep FBS football. Idaho who was already in the Big Sky for all sports except football took their offer and is dropping down to the FCS level (as a Big Sky member).

So at the end of the day, the Montana and Idaho schools will stay in the Big Sky and the Dakota schools will stay Summit/MVFC. Also a conference cannot just decide to be FBS. There are only two conference that do not currently sponsor FBS football that could sponsor FBS football. Those two conferences are the WAC and the MVC (not MVFC). So if the Dakota schools and Montana schools want to go FBS they would have to join up with New Mexico State do it through the WAC, not the Summit League.

Now let's look ahead to the future of the Summit League. Fort Wayne will most likely join the Horizon League at some point within the next few years. (If the MVC takes NKU then IPFW would probably be the top candidate to take their spot). There are rumors that UMKC might rejoin the Summit League next season. If the MVC takes Murray State I would have to think that Western Illinois could be looked at by the OVC. It would definitely be less travel for WIU and they would already have an instate rival in EIU. So worst case scenario I think the Summit will be down to 7 teams. Maybe they could get Chicago State to come back if they don't shut down.

With that said I think if the MVC invites SDSU, I think SDSU would definitely accept. It would have to be a no brainier for them. The Summit League could get a little better, but the stability of the league long term has to be a little bit of a concern. On the other hand there are plenty of schools (probably lots we wouldn't want either) out there that would jump all over an MVC invite. The Summit is pretty much stuck with whatever they can get right now.

There is so much misinformation in this post.

First of all, if there was any animosity, it was because UND swept the four major conference spectator sports: mbb, wbb, fb, and vb. Don’t think that has ever been done in any conference.

Also, the Big Sky never asked UND to leave and the Big Sky doesn’t have exit fees if the leaving school notifies the conference in a timely matter, at least one year for general athletics and two years for fb. Giving two years for non-fb sports and four years for fb is more than timely. There is still time for the Montana’s, Idaho and Weber to qualify for competion to begin in 2020. The Big Sky has apparently contacted Central Washington already, who is making plans to move up by 2020. The Montana’s and Idaho would never allow CWU in their conference, but Central Washington’s president has been broadcasting that they need improved facilities by 2020 for a DI move up. The Montanas and Idaho knew that the Summit would have a problem replacing IPFW as the Summit never got DII teams to move up. This has been planned for some time. If the Summit was going to proceed as a Midwest league, they would have called up Minn St-Mankato and maybe a school like Washburn years ago to have DI numbers that is needed to survive. The Summit has other existing DI and FCS schools already set when IPFW and W Illinois leave. Azusa Pacific is another school that is rumored for the Big Sky after 2020, so it will have a much greater Pacific Coast flavor, and Azusa moved up shortly after WAC fb disbanded.

The Big Sky tried to get as many western fb teams as possible for a split of FBS and FCS schools. The Montana’s wanted FBS long term even back in 2011 but they didn’t want an MWC budget and don't want travel to New Mexico or Texas so the WAC was out. In the Summit, they will be comfortable with the economics. Idaho needs an FBS conference of like and nearby schools. It’s pretty simple.

A conference becoming an FBS conference is simple, getting 8 FBS teams together. Liberty showed that waivers for FBS can happen. Don’t kid yourself that another FBS league can’t happen.

[VUGrad1314]

That's all well and good and that arrangement may well work for the Summit\Big Sky teams, but you're acting like adding Fort Wayne Western Illinois and Robert Morris is going to make teams in the Horizon League not prefer the MVC and that just isn't true. Same with the OVC (with the curious exception of Belmont). If the MVC wants to expand to the south and east or even to the north into Wisconsin it can. The league isn't screwed and it certainly isn't because of the private schools. In case you haven't noticed three of the top four teams in the MVC this year including the conference leader are private schools. Who's using misinformation again? Also, while adding the Dakota schools, especially SDSU and NDSU, may enhance the athletic product, it does precious little for recruiting territory and media deals and there are comparable or better programs that do more for us in that regard.

[UNDfan]

That's all well and good and that arrangement may well work for the Summit\Big Sky teams, but you're acting like adding Fort Wayne Western Illinois and Robert Morris is going to make teams in the Horizon League not prefer the MVC and that just isn't true. Same with the OVC (with the curious exception of Belmont). If the MVC wants to expand to the south and east or even to the north into Wisconsin it can. The league isn't screwed and it certainly isn't because of the private schools. In case you haven't noticed three of the top four teams in the MVC this year including the conference leader are private schools. Who's using misinformation again? Also, while adding the Dakota schools, especially SDSU and NDSU, may enhance the athletic product, it does precious little for recruiting territory and media deals and there are comparable or better programs that do more for us in that regard.

The Horizon becomes the new Summit and the MVC will only have one conference now to pick off. Except Belmont, and Murray St which is almost set to go, the OVC will be a very low conference that the MVC won’t want to touch. The Horizon now becomes the league that any decent school wants to leave.

[Jsnhbe1Birds]

That's all well and good and that arrangement may well work for the Summit\Big Sky teams, but you're acting like adding Fort Wayne Western Illinois and Robert Morris is going to make teams in the Horizon League not prefer the MVC and that just isn't true. Same with the OVC (with the curious exception of Belmont). If the MVC wants to expand to the south and east or even to the north into Wisconsin it can. The league isn't screwed and it certainly isn't because of the private schools. In case you haven't noticed three of the top four teams in the MVC this year including the conference leader are private schools. Who's using misinformation again? Also, while adding the Dakota schools, especially SDSU and NDSU, may enhance the athletic product, it does precious little for recruiting territory and media deals and there are comparable or better programs that do more for us in that regard.

The Horizon becomes the new Summit and the MVC will only have one conference now to pick off. Except Belmont, and Murray St which is almost set to go, the OVC will be a very low conference that the MVC won’t want to touch. The Horizon now becomes the league that any decent school wants to leave.

NMSU, gcu, Murray State, NKU. Done Best of all worlds.

[GoSIU88]

It would behoove the MVC to expand more and then split into public and private schools like the Big East did. The privates detest football, which is more and more driving the boat. Expand to 14 then split. Down the road, someone's really going to get hurt by your dysfunctional league.

Nah, we're all pretty happy right now. Turns out Wichta's constant grandstanding brought everybody together. The league is as stable as its ever been. UNI, Illinois State and Missouri State are literally the only schools that would have the possible option to get out and those are the 3 schools leading the expansion committee and realistically, I don't think any of them would sacrifice MBB for FBS football at this point. Indiana State and SIU are budget nightmares that don't want to have any additional costs.

As far as the Privates leaving, where are they going to go? Evansville, Drake, Loyola and Valpo have no options. I guess if Bradley wanted to jump on the island with SLU in the A10 they might be able to but why would they leave the rivalries they've spent 40 years developing.

But sure, the AMCU/MidCon/Summit is going to get to the same level as the Valley. That league has been nothing more than a foot in the door to DI to get to where you really want to go. I'm sure UNI and Missouri State regret leaving it in the early 90s every single day. If only they could be associated with the mighty academic institutions of the Summit League.

Bradley, I suspect, is longing for the Big East or B1G.

[Jsnhbe1Birds]

It would behoove the MVC to expand more and then split into public and private schools like the Big East did. The privates detest football, which is more and more driving the boat. Expand to 14 then split. Down the road, someone's really going to get hurt by your dysfunctional league.

Nah, we're all pretty happy right now. Turns out Wichta's constant grandstanding brought everybody together. The league is as stable as its ever been. UNI, Illinois State and Missouri State are literally the only schools that would have the possible option to get out and those are the 3 schools leading the expansion committee and realistically, I don't think any of them would sacrifice MBB for FBS football at this point. Indiana State and SIU are budget nightmares that don't want to have any additional costs.

As far as the Privates leaving, where are they going to go? Evansville, Drake, Loyola and Valpo have no options. I guess if Bradley wanted to jump on the island with SLU in the A10 they might be able to but why would they leave the rivalries they've spent 40 years developing.

But sure, the AMCU/MidCon/Summit is going to get to the same level as the Valley. That league has been nothing more than a foot in the door to DI to get to where you really want to go. I'm sure UNI and Missouri State regret leaving it in the early 90s every single day. If only they could be associated with the mighty academic institutions of the Summit League.

Bradley, I suspect, is longing for the Big East or B1G.

Good luck getting into the B1G without football. Also, they have budget issues as is.

[VU2014]

Let's be honest for everyone in the Conference the MVC is the best situation other then some kind of "pie in the sky" scenario where you leave to join the Big East. It's just not going to happen (especially for the publics). The publics could maybe join MAC because of football but that would be a downgrade in basketball and it would be so expensive to go FBS it wouldn't be finically worth it.

I could see a scenario in the next 10-20 years where the Big East breaks up and they split into to different private conferences between midwest and the East.

The next huge domino to fall in Conference Realignment is when the BIG 12 collapses when the TV rights deals don't become as lucrative a few years from now.

[BCPanther]

The incredibly prestigious AMCU/MidCon/Summit Leauge was formed in 1982 and has had 31 different schools as all sports members during that time-

Original Members-
Southwest Missouri State (82-90)-Left for Missouri Valley
Northern Iowa (82-91)-Left for Missouri Valley
Cleveland State (82-94)-Left for Horizon League
Illinois-Chicago (82-94)-Left for Horizon League
UW-Green Bay (82-94)-Left for Horizon League
Eastern Illinois (82-96)-Left for Ohio Valley
Valparaison (82-07)-Left for Horizon League
Western Illinois(82-present)

Former Members-Non Original
Akron (90-92)-Placeholder waiting for MAC
Northern Illinois (90-93)-Placeholder wating for MAC
Wright State (91-94)- Left for Horizon League
Youngstown State (92-01)- Left for Horizon League
UW-Milwaukee (93-94)- 1 year, Left for Horizon League
-----This is where it gets fun and screams stability-----
Central Connecticut State (94-97)--Left for NEC
Troy (94-97)-Placeholder for FBS transition, waiting for SunBelt
Buffalo (94-98)-Placeholder for FBS Transition, Left for MAC
Northeastern Illinois (94-98)-Dropped to DII
Chicago State (94-01)- LOL, went independent, ended up in the WAC
UMKC (94-13)-Left for the WAC
Southern Utah (97-12)- Left for Big Sky
Oral Roberts (97-12)-Left for Southland, came back 1 year later
IUPUI (98-17)-Left for Horizon League
Oakland (98-13)-Left for Horizon League
Centenary (03-11)-Dropped to DIII

Current Members
Western Illinois (charter member)-from DII transtion Independent
South Dakota State (joined 07)-from DII
Fort Wayne (joined 07)-from DII transition independent
North Dakota State (joined 07)-from DII
South Dakota (joined 11)-from DII
Omaha (joined 12)-from DII
Denver (joined 13)-from SunBelt/WAC
Oral Roberts (re-joined 14)-from Southland/Midwestern Collegiate/MW City/Indpendent
North Dakota (joins in 18)-from Big Sky

Lets compare that to the Valley since 1982---

Former Members-Non Original
New Mexico State (70-83)-Left for FBS, WAC
West Texas State (72-85)-Left for DII
Tulsa (35-96)-Left for FBS, CUSA-->American
Creighton (28-48, 76-13)-Left for Big East
Wichita State (49-17)- Left for American

Current Members
Bradley (55-present)-from Independent
Drake (56-present)-from Independent
Southern Illinois (75-present)-from Independent
Indiana State (77-present)-from Independent
Illinois State (81-present)-from Independent
SMS/Missouri State (90-present)-from AMCU/MidCon/Summit
Northern Iowa (91-present)-from AMCU/MidCon/Summit
Evansville (94-present)-from Midwestern Collegiate/Great Midwest
Loyola-Chicago (13-present)-from Horizon League
Valparaiso (17-present)-from Horizon League

One of these looks like a 'mid-major destination league' one of these looks like a temporary life raft...