Updated 1/6/18: MVC Expansion Poll

[BCPanther]

Pardon my hot take here:

Maybe it should have been Murray instead of Valpo? I think non-football school paranoia got in the way and we ended up with the worse option.

I'm not sure how you can walk into the non-air conditioned ARC that was last renovated in 1984 around the bones of a building built in 1939 and say 'Yep, this is a Valley facility'. Murray has also been able to maintain success through a series of coaching moves and changes. Valpo hasn't exactly been successful without a head coach named Drew.

[VUGrad1314]

Too many variables and unanswered questions as to what the news of Augustana to the Summit League might mean for the MVC's expansion hopes.

It could be positive (SL Football splitting off the Dakotas could lessen Murray's travel burden)

It could have no effect (Augustana does not join the MVFC and WIU stays put)

or it could be calamitous (WIU and Lipscomb joining the OVC providing Murray State with a solid justification for staying where they are while eliminating the MVFC's need to balance the North Dakota addition numerically. The only hope then would be Robert Morris who is rumored to be going to the Horizon League with Fort Wayne and Murray State both joining a 14 team MVFC

Augustana's addition also impacts potential MVC expansion in another way: If Augustana keeps football it balances the North Dakota addition and probably splits the MVFC in two but only if WIU doesn't go to the OVC. If WIU goes under this scenario it opens a spot for Murray State in the MVFC if they want it but the favorable travel and the potential carrot of Lipscomb basketball to boost their flagship sport will be hard to turn down. If they don't then there's still hope for Murray State as the split with the Summit will open up some spots and Murray should be competitive under that alignment and the OVC doesn't have the WIU\Lipscomb carrot to dangle.

If Augustana drops football it will probably repurpose the money to fill in some other SL needs like men's soccer lessening the need for the SL to invite UMKC and make the WAC unstable Thus ends the NMSU\GCUdream if it ever has a chance. Murray State still has some agency in this scenario too.

if WIU does go to the OVC UMKC's return to the SL is back on and the western scenario maintains a shred of life but let's focus on Murray State right now:

Murray State still has some agency in this scenario too. Murray State have to resist the WIU\Lipscomb carrot AND have RMU join the MVFC instead of the Big South for a 12 member league.

If WIU doesn't go to the OVC they can claim the football spot before another team(Robert Morris and force RMU to the OVC (FB only) or the Big South I just can't see the MVFC trying 13 members for any length of time. So it would have to be only 1 of Murray State and RMU in the MVFC when North Dakota gets here

HOWEVER: There is a school that can accommodate everyone in this scenario(regardless of what UMKC does as that's up to the SL whether they want 10 or 11 members if\when they start football : Northern Colorado. If they choose to go to the SL they can make SL football AND Murray State to the MVC a reality while giving RMU a home with rival YSU and closer schools than the Big South REGARDLESS of what WIU does. IF Augustana keeps football If not the SL will need help but the MVC\MVFC don't to accomplish their goals

If Augustana keeps football and WIU stays the SL splits off and forms its own league which they can join

If Augustana keeps football and WIU goes to the OVC BUT Northern Colorado joins the SL splits off and Murray State can join the MVC\MVFC if they so choose as can RMU (MVFC only).

If Augustana drops football WIU stays and UNC joins The SL splits off and Murray State and RMU(MVFC Only) can join the MVC\MVFC

If Augustana drops football and WIU goes then RMU and Murray Statecan join a 12 team MVFC and UNC is not needed except by the SL which isn't relevant to MVC expansion. If for some reason RMU chooses the Big South for football (they shouldn't if the MVFC is on the table in any way for travel cost reasons) UNC or Duquesne( if they're willing to go full scholarship) can be added as an emergency member or perhaps they can find a football affiliate or try to make 11 work which is for easier in football

[TheDrake]

Pardon my hot take here:

Maybe it should have been Murray instead of Valpo? I think non-football school paranoia got in the way and we ended up with the worse option.

I'm not sure how you can walk into the non-air conditioned ARC that was last renovated in 1984 around the bones of a building built in 1939 and say 'Yep, this is a Valley facility'. Murray has also been able to maintain success through a series of coaching moves and changes. Valpo hasn't exactly been successful without a head coach named Drew.

They've only had two seasons out of the last 30 where they haven't been coached by a Drew. Two years of mediocre performance isn't enough evidence to say that they can't be successful without a particular family of coaches.

[jsaluki080]

Pardon my hot take here:

Maybe it should have been Murray instead of Valpo? I think non-football school paranoia got in the way and we ended up with the worse option.

I'm not sure how you can walk into the non-air conditioned ARC that was last renovated in 1984 around the bones of a building built in 1939 and say 'Yep, this is a Valley facility'. Murray has also been able to maintain success through a series of coaching moves and changes. Valpo hasn't exactly been successful without a head coach named Drew.

Let’s not go there. People were very unhappy with Loyola 5 years ago and now they are one of the leaders per-se. Valpo has a solid program with recent success though they seem to be in a bit of a trough currently, similar to UNI.

But yes, I’d love to have Murray join. ... maybe they could replace the Aces!!! Lol, I tease, I tease.

[Dean Wormer]

Pardon my hot take here:

Maybe it should have been Murray instead of Valpo? I think non-football school paranoia got in the way and we ended up with the worse option.

I'm not sure how you can walk into the non-air conditioned ARC that was last renovated in 1984 around the bones of a building built in 1939 and say 'Yep, this is a Valley facility'. Murray has also been able to maintain success through a series of coaching moves and changes. Valpo hasn't exactly been successful without a head coach named Drew.

I have been wondering the same thing as well. Yes, Murray has Valley level facilities, not to mention their basketball performance through the years. Also, I doubt we would have a Murray poster taking over the board, talking in circles about adding non-Valley level members or the impending doom of the MVC. How that vote shook out would be interesting, but I don't think it was strictly along football lines. I remember seeing a video with the Evansville AD where he was pretty adamant about their desire to add Murray.

SLU and Murray are the ONLY two programs that are potential candidates that are currently Valley worthy. Guess what, we don't need 60 pages telling us how SLU feels their interests are better served with eastern exposure, or how we all have agreed over and over that Murray belongs in. WE KNOW. And we certainly don't need talk about commuter schools, or Arizona schools, or whatever other flavor of the day he comes up with. Valpo fan needs to understand the history, and more importantly, the make up of the Valley. 5 public schools that are very similar, and 5 private schools that are also very similar. All except one have above average facilities and fan bases. All are the primary program in their respective markets, with the exception of Loyola, and frankly, they may be now as well. That pie can be divided a little, but grabbing the lesser school in places like Omaha, Tulsa or Dayton should never be considered. And, contrary to his belief, the Valley has been relatively stable. I see nothing in the future that would change it.

It is up to the 10 members of this conference to improve the league. No addition will magically do it, not even MSU or SLU by themselves. Valpo fan needs to worry about getting his programs performance and facilities up to Valley levels before telling us that we have to expand or die. His concerns about improving the MVC should begin and end in Northwest Indiana at this point.

[MissouriValleyUnite]

Valpo’s had no issue sustaining recruiting so the ARC isn’t even a factor. I’m not even worried about them. Just need to hire the right coach. Just like every other MVC school.

Murray had their worst 2 years predating the MVC decision. Valpo had their worst 2 years in a decade immediately after. You know who else is in the midst of their 2 worst years in a decade? UNI!

But mid-major ball is cyclical so why would I judge UNI off 2 anomaly years? Or Murray? Or Valpo who’s finished with 15+ wins 24/25 years and 24.5 wins this decade until last year?

Go through the years and UNI/Murray/Valpo are actually all very similar programs.

[MissouriValleyUnite]

Pardon my hot take here:

Maybe it should have been Murray instead of Valpo? I think non-football school paranoia got in the way and we ended up with the worse option.

I'm not sure how you can walk into the non-air conditioned ARC that was last renovated in 1984 around the bones of a building built in 1939 and say 'Yep, this is a Valley facility'. Murray has also been able to maintain success through a series of coaching moves and changes. Valpo hasn't exactly been successful without a head coach named Drew.

Let’s not go there. People were very unhappy with Loyola 5 years ago and now they are one of the leaders per-se. Valpo has a solid program with recent success though they seem to be in a bit of a trough currently, similar to UNI.

But yes, I’d love to have Murray join. ... maybe they could replace the Aces!!! Lol, I tease, I tease.

Not only that, but Valpo was whipping MVC schools like Murray is whipping MVC schools right now before the decision was made. Something like 5-0 the 3 years predating the decision, plus 3-0 against Murray.

[VUGrad1314]

Pardon my hot take here:

Maybe it should have been Murray instead of Valpo? I think non-football school paranoia got in the way and we ended up with the worse option.

I'm not sure how you can walk into the non-air conditioned ARC that was last renovated in 1984 around the bones of a building built in 1939 and say 'Yep, this is a Valley facility'. Murray has also been able to maintain success through a series of coaching moves and changes. Valpo hasn't exactly been successful without a head coach named Drew.

That's some big talk coming from a fan of a team that's 34-37 after choking away a Sweet 16 appearance...

Let me ask you three questions:

1. Back when Loyola was struggling to finish above .500 in MVC play did you ever give their fans grief because they weren't doing as well as Valpo who was in the midst of a historic run of seasons when the MVC could have added us instead?

2. If Loyola hadn't have gone to the tournament last year would you be talking crap about them today wishing the MVC had added Valpo for Creighton so we could have had Murray State when the Shockers left?

3. Do these records look familiar to you?

10-18 (6-12) T7
12-15 (8-10)6
16-13(10-8) 5
8-20 (4-14)9
14-13 (8-10) 7
16-12 (11-7) T4
10-17(4-14) 9
9-18 (6-12) T8
14-15 (7-11 7
7-24 (3-15) 10
14-15 (8-10) 7
11-17 (7-11) 7
Total: 141-197 .417
Conf. Record: 82-134 .380 7.3

Those are UNI's results for their first 12 years of MVC Competition.Now here are some more facts:

Missouri State a program added from the same conference as UNI just one year prior finished outside the top 6 (counting ties) exactly once in that span.

It took UNI to year 6 to finish above .500 Loyola did it in 5

It took UNI until year 13 to produce a tournament credit Loyola did it in 5 So did Evansville Missouri State did it year 1

It took UNI until year 18 to win a conference title Loyola did it in 5 So did Evansville

It took UNI until year 19 to produce a tournament win Missouri State did it in 8 Loyola did it in 5

I know that league had Tulsa Creighton and Wichita State so it's not apples to apples and I know that between 03-04 and 15-16 UNI was a consistently solid to even great program but come on man. Glass houses. I bet your facilities got better thanks to MVC membership and so will ours. But you're going to come after us like that after one year with a record like that? We've only been without the Drews really for one full season. Lottich's first year was all Bryce's players including Peters and year two was year one in the MVC which was a big adjustment. I know our first year results were disappointing and we're disappointed and frustrated too but if any fanbase should have empathy for how tough it is to compete in this conference it should be UNI fans. Give us some time to get our legs under us. After all, it seems your MVC peers were plenty patient with your program. We would like the same courtesy. You don't think anyone second-guessed UNI's addition to the conference during that first decade-plus?

[IWokeUpLikeThis]

Pardon my hot take here:

Maybe it should have been Murray instead of Valpo? I think non-football school paranoia got in the way and we ended up with the worse option.

I'm not sure how you can walk into the non-air conditioned ARC that was last renovated in 1984 around the bones of a building built in 1939 and say 'Yep, this is a Valley facility'. Murray has also been able to maintain success through a series of coaching moves and changes. Valpo hasn't exactly been successful without a head coach named Drew.

That's some big talk coming from a fan of a team that's 34-37 after choking away a Sweet 16 appearance...

Let me ask you three questions:

1. Back when Loyola was struggling to finish above .500 in MVC play did you ever give their fans grief because they weren't doing as well as Valpo who was in the midst of a historic run of seasons when the MVC could have added us instead?

2. If Loyola hadn't have gone to the tournament last year would you be talking crap about them today wishing the MVC had added Valpo for Creighton so we could have had Murray State when the Shockers left?

3. Do these records look familiar to you?

10-18 (6-12) T7
12-15 (8-10)6
16-13(10-8) 5
8-20 (4-14)9
14-13 (8-10) 7
16-12 (11-7) T4
10-17(4-14) 9
9-18 (6-12) T8
14-15 (7-11 7
7-24 (3-15) 10
14-15 (8-10) 7
11-17 (7-11) 7
Total: 141-197 .417
Conf. Record: 82-134 .380 7.3

Those are UNI's results for their first 12 years of MVC Competition.Now here are some more facts:

Missouri State a program added from the same conference as UNI just one year prior finished outside the top 6 (counting ties) exactly once in that span.

It took UNI to year 6 to finish above .500 Loyola did it in 5

It took UNI until year 13 to produce a tournament credit Loyola did it in 5 So did Evansville Missouri State did it year 1

It took UNI until year 18 to win a conference title Loyola did it in 5 So did Evansville

It took UNI until year 19 to produce a tournament win Missouri State did it in 8 Loyola did it in 5

I know that league had Tulsa Creighton and Wichita State so it's not apples to apples and I know that between 03-04 and 15-16 UNI was a consistently solid to even great program but come on man. Glass houses. I bet your facilities got better thanks to MVC membership and so will ours. But you're going to come after us like that after one year with a record like that? We've only been without the Drews really for one full season. Lottich's first year was all Bryce's players including Peters and year two was year one in the MVC which was a big adjustment. I know our first year results were disappointing and we're disappointed and frustrated too but if any fanbase should have empathy for how tough it is to compete in this conference it should be UNI fans. Give us some time to get our legs under us. After all, it seems your MVC peers were plenty patient with your program. We would like the same courtesy. You don't think anyone second-guessed UNI's addition to the conference during that first decade-plus?

That’s what you call a Smackdown.

UNI lost by 32 to SDSU and trailed Dubuque by double digits their last 2 trips to the court.

[BCPanther]

Pardon my hot take here:

Maybe it should have been Murray instead of Valpo? I think non-football school paranoia got in the way and we ended up with the worse option.

I'm not sure how you can walk into the non-air conditioned ARC that was last renovated in 1984 around the bones of a building built in 1939 and say 'Yep, this is a Valley facility'. Murray has also been able to maintain success through a series of coaching moves and changes. Valpo hasn't exactly been successful without a head coach named Drew.

That's some big talk coming from a fan of a team that's 34-37 after choking away a Sweet 16 appearance...

Let me ask you three questions:

1. Back when Loyola was struggling to finish above .500 in MVC play did you ever give their fans grief because they weren't doing as well as Valpo who was in the midst of a historic run of seasons when the MVC could have added us instead?

2. If Loyola hadn't have gone to the tournament last year would you be talking crap about them today wishing the MVC had added Valpo for Creighton so we could have had Murray State when the Shockers left?

3. Do these records look familiar to you?

10-18 (6-12) T7
12-15 (8-10)6
16-13(10-8) 5
8-20 (4-14)9
14-13 (8-10) 7
16-12 (11-7) T4
10-17(4-14) 9
9-18 (6-12) T8
14-15 (7-11 7
7-24 (3-15) 10
14-15 (8-10) 7
11-17 (7-11) 7
Total: 141-197 .417
Conf. Record: 82-134 .380 7.3

Those are UNI's results for their first 12 years of MVC Competition.Now here are some more facts:

Missouri State a program added from the same conference as UNI just one year prior finished outside the top 6 (counting ties) exactly once in that span.

It took UNI to year 6 to finish above .500 Loyola did it in 5

It took UNI until year 13 to produce a tournament credit Loyola did it in 5 So did Evansville Missouri State did it year 1

It took UNI until year 18 to win a conference title Loyola did it in 5 So did Evansville

It took UNI until year 19 to produce a tournament win Missouri State did it in 8 Loyola did it in 5

I know that league had Tulsa Creighton and Wichita State so it's not apples to apples and I know that between 03-04 and 15-16 UNI was a consistently solid to even great program but come on man. Glass houses. I bet your facilities got better thanks to MVC membership and so will ours. But you're going to come after us like that after one year with a record like that? We've only been without the Drews really for one full season. Lottich's first year was all Bryce's players including Peters and year two was year one in the MVC which was a big adjustment. I know our first year results were disappointing and we're disappointed and frustrated too but if any fanbase should have empathy for how tough it is to compete in this conference it should be UNI fans. Give us some time to get our legs under us. After all, it seems your MVC peers were plenty patient with your program. We would like the same courtesy. You don't think anyone second-guessed UNI's addition to the conference during that first decade-plus?

Yep, we struggled. There wasn't any doubt about it, though we did finish above .500 and played in Championship Game in StL in year 3 and lost a 3 point game to a good SIU team. The Valley was also in a much different place at that time. The league was bad, they had lost membership and needed a warm body. UNI, thanks to Eldon Miller, was that fit at the time. Believe me, we took crap like none other, especially from Rich Herrin and Jim Molinari. We also knew what our program was and didn't come in talking crap about how we were going to win the damn league from day one.

I don't think I was so much running Valpo down as I was saying, rhetorically, that Murray may have been the better option. In time, I'm sure Valpo will be just fine just maybe have a little bit steeper learning and facilities curve than Murray did.

Lastly, you're right the A&M game was an inexcusable choke job. We pissed it down our leg (though the officiating didn't exactly help). Still not exactly sure how it happened. But you know where you have to be to lose that game? In the second round of the damn tournament.