Updated 1/6/18: MVC Expansion Poll

Discuss the MVC hoops season here.

Choose two: Who do you think the MVC should add?

Murray State
129
47%
Northern Kentucky
36
13%
UW-Milwaukee
13
5%
Oakland
1
0%
South Dakota State
12
4%
Southeast Missouri State
3
1%
Belmont
57
21%
Grand Canyon
6
2%
UT-Arlington
7
3%
Denver
13
5%
 
Total votes : 277

Re: Updated 1/6/18: MVC Expansion Poll

Postby BCPanther » February 14th, 2019, 9:23 am

BEARZ77 wrote:Again I'm in favor of Murray joining, but some of the arguments are taking on the flavor of that Bison fan last year who kept trying to convince us all the Valley couldn't survive without NDSU. First off on attendance, everyone got all gaga when Murray had the 8,000+ for the game earlier, but in checking current attendance, they are around 4600 which would be 5th in the Valley. It's good attendance , but they aren't going to significantly impact attendance in the Valley; programs like Evansville and MSU who are already ahead of them in attendance are on the upswing and both should show increases again next year in their second year under new coaches. Illinois State and bradley which also draw more can do even better as Bradley always has the potential to average 7,000 or more . While I do think Murray would be a decent draw the first year as a visiting game, the Valley has a lot of traditional rivalries that are their major draws. Now if Murray came in and was a top 1-3 team regularly, then yeah, they'd probably draw pretty good on the road, just as any team that does well over time generally does.

This years drop in the Valley's rankings appears to me to be temporary and you can easily see reasons why.You have 3 new coaches, and probably 2 more on the way. A couple teams that were counted on to be at the top just didn't perform. That happens, which is why things are so bunched. The bottom of the Valley is improved, but the top didn't perform up to expectations. However, looking ahead, not only do you have programs under new coaches who look to improve, you have a young Valpo team that is still acclimating to the Valley and got hit hard with injury. As far as incoming talent, 3-4 schools [MSU/Drake/Loyola] to name several had excellent recruiting classes in the fall, and a number of schools MSU,ISUr,Valpo,and Evansville again to name several, have significant experienced transfers sitting out this year who will immediately raise the talent level in the conference next year. So i see a big uptick already talent wise for the conference.

Again I'd like Murray in the league, but it's not panic time by any means. There's too much volatility on the horizon with restructuring to feel you have to expand just to expand. Murray's great, and Northern Kentucky looks credible, but again there's no immediately compelling reason to make a move.


Outstanding Post!

With the renewed excitement in some of our bigger buildings (MSU, UE, hopefully SIU and InSU) and Bradley maybe looking like they've found the right formula to get back to averaging 7 or 8k the league is primed to have some full arenas, great atmospheres and, most importantly, really good basketball. I am looking forward to the 'No Nights Off' league again in full buildings. Let's just hope that SIU makes the right hire and InSU cuts Lansing loose and actually invests in the program.
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Re: Updated 1/6/18: MVC Expansion Poll

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Re: Updated 1/6/18: MVC Expansion Poll

Postby RacerJoeD » February 14th, 2019, 9:25 am

Just to be clear, I haven't ever said that the MVC's future depends upon adding Murray State.

However, I DID say that I would put Murray's fans against ANY TEAM in either valley. And if I didn't, I am now.
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Re: Updated 1/6/18: MVC Expansion Poll

Postby BEARZ77 » February 14th, 2019, 12:26 pm

RacerJoeD wrote:Just to be clear, I haven't ever said that the MVC's future depends upon adding Murray State.

However, I DID say that I would put Murray's fans against ANY TEAM in either valley. And if I didn't, I am now.


You've always been fair and reasonable in your promotion of Murray State, and like I've said repeatedly, I'm all for Murray State in the MVC. It's a few of the other posters[ mostly I believe from Valley schools, though I'm not sure on Missouri Valley Unite] who keep repeating the same panic "rhetoric about expand this minute or die". As far as fan base, while not as big as a WSU/Creighton , I think Murray's is as consistent in their historic support and again would be a fine addition. I don't know enough about your history to say whether they are capable of the 7 thousand plus nightly that Bradley, MSU, and even SIU were able to do in the past, but I'd take a school that pushes close to 5,000 and travels well. There's probably 2-3 programs I'd gladly trade Murray for right now, but that's not fair as every valley school has shown the potential to have quality programs and decent attendance when administrated effectively.

I for one think the Valley is well positioned if they are sensible about the next 5-10 years. If someone thinks "well positioned" means being able to join the power elite, well no that ain't happening under any circumstances. But if it means being able to field programs that can compete on the court with the majority of the programs at that level and that are annually among the best on the non p-5 programs in the country, then yeah.
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Re: Updated 1/6/18: MVC Expansion Poll

Postby MissouriValleyUnite » February 14th, 2019, 1:09 pm

“Expanding to expand” is adding Nebraska-Omaha or Wisconsin-Milwaukee. Adding a school that elevates the league mean is expanding to make the league better.

The issue isn’t “expansion or die”. If Murray State didn’t exist, neither would this thread. There would be no appetite to expand.

The issue is Murray State. The issue is missing a slam dunk to make the league better.

“Waiting for restructuring” is the same reactive strategy the Valley employed in the 2000’s when it passed on expanding with Butler. Fast forward 10 years and the Valley had neither Butler’s 2 Final Fours nor its 2 biggest members.

There is no restructuring that will bring SLU or Dayton or top G5 to the MVC. P5 schools are still scheduling G5 schools 10 years out, and nothing will ever convince SLU or Dayton to give up an East Coast private league for a midwestern mid-major hodgepodge they consider beneath them.

The strategy of waiting for Halley’s Comet has about 0.1% chance of success.

Data has been provided on where the MVC stands. Data has been provided on the net benefits of adding Murray State now - where’s the data supporting not adding them?
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Re: Updated 1/6/18: MVC Expansion Poll

Postby uniguy » February 14th, 2019, 3:20 pm

MissouriValleyUnite wrote:“Expanding to expand” is adding Nebraska-Omaha or Wisconsin-Milwaukee. Adding a school that elevates the league mean is expanding to make the league better.

The issue isn’t “expansion or die”. If Murray State didn’t exist, neither would this thread. There would be no appetite to expand.

The issue is Murray State. The issue is missing a slam dunk to make the league better.

“Waiting for restructuring” is the same reactive strategy the Valley employed in the 2000’s when it passed on expanding with Butler. Fast forward 10 years and the Valley had neither Butler’s 2 Final Fours nor its 2 biggest members.

There is no restructuring that will bring SLU or Dayton or top G5 to the MVC. P5 schools are still scheduling G5 schools 10 years out, and nothing will ever convince SLU or Dayton to give up an East Coast private league for a midwestern mid-major hodgepodge they consider beneath them.

The strategy of waiting for Halley’s Comet has about 0.1% chance of success.

Data has been provided on where the MVC stands. Data has been provided on the net benefits of adding Murray State now - where’s the data supporting not adding them?


I'm with this guy. I keep hearing that there is no compelling reason to add Murray. But I don't think there is a compelling reason not to. They are a slam dunk add that will make the league better right now. If we go to 11, there is still an opening if one of those A-10 schools wants in (although that is very unlikely). And even if we went 12, there would be nothing precluding us from adding a Dayton or SLU should the opportunity arise.

Go 11, leave a spot open for Horizon/Summit/etc teams that might have an interest to aspire to. Go to 12 when the choice becomes obvious. It is what the AAC did with Wichita. The MWC is trying to do it with Gonzaga. Just seems like a slam dunk no brainer.
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Re: Updated 1/6/18: MVC Expansion Poll

Postby Jsnhbe1Birds » February 14th, 2019, 4:41 pm

Gonzaga would make 12. They already have 11. 12 in football. Hawaii doesn't play other sports in mwc for travel reasons.
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Re: Updated 1/6/18: MVC Expansion Poll

Postby BearsCountry » February 14th, 2019, 7:05 pm

Jsnhbe1Birds wrote:Gonzaga would make 12. They already have 11. 12 in football. Hawaii doesn't play other sports in mwc for travel reasons.


It would be the same role that Wichita plays in the AAC with Navy being their football team.
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Re: Updated 1/6/18: MVC Expansion Poll

Postby VUGrad1314 » February 14th, 2019, 7:15 pm

I think Gonzaga will regret not moving up come tournament time. Not in terms of seeding but in terms of preparedness. I also think that they will eventually move up. They just want to soak up a few more tournament appearances and credits before being forced to make their move.
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Re: Updated 1/6/18: MVC Expansion Poll

Postby uniguy » February 14th, 2019, 9:14 pm

Jsnhbe1Birds wrote:Gonzaga would make 12. They already have 11. 12 in football. Hawaii doesn't play other sports in mwc for travel reasons.


That's my point. The AAC had 11 and waited for an obvious 12th to emerge. Wichita caught fire in the Greggggg era and became that obvious choice.

Mountain West has 11 and the obvious 12th is Gonzaga. They aren't going to go to 12 just to make travel schedules work or whatever. They're leaving that spot open for a school to emerge. Gonzaga would be an obvious choice, but they aren't going to move on to......Montana or whatever just to add.

We can add Murray and go to 11. If some school becomes the next Butler, or a Dayton/SLU type shows interest (or whatever the case may be) and becomes the obvious choice for 12, we add them. But eleven is just fine until that day comes. And yes, ten is fine too, but if the only reason we aren't doing it is so the soccer teams have an easier time scheduling.....that is pretty small time mid-major thinking. And the Valley claims to be the premier mid-major league in the Midwest. It isn't ideal for scheduling, but it can be done. The Summit has an odd number. Many conferences can and do have 11 teams. Mere mortals are capable of this.
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Re: Updated 1/6/18: MVC Expansion Poll

Postby IWokeUpLikeThis » February 14th, 2019, 10:34 pm

Bristol put the Murray St 8pm game tonight on espn2 while relegating the Arizona/Utah 8pm game to espnu. Anyone notice that?
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