Loyola Leaving for A-10

[BCPanther]

Evansville and Valpo were the last two that we took on 'success' rather than 'potential' fwiw......

Missouri State, UNI and Loyola were all taken on 'potential'....

[Redhawk]

[quote="BCPanther"]Evansville and Valpo were the last two that we took on 'success' rather than 'potential' fwiw......

Missouri State, UNI and Loyola were all taken on 'potential'....[/quote

[bradley_townie]

My biggest issue with the satellite schools is how much are the University of Texas and University of Missouri systems willing to pump into these schools when the crown jewels are in Austin and Columbia. I believe there is a ceiling on potential and sustained athletic success of these satellite schools.

We see the tension in the SIU system between Edwardsville and Carbondale. Edwardsville has outpaced Carbondale in enrollment and while basketball talent isn't comparable at the moment, I imagine big brother in Carbondale will do what they can to continue receiving the bulk of athletic funding in the future regardless of revenue flows.

[Blers]

Very excited for the move for Loyola, but still sad to be leaving the Valley.

I think it’s worth noting that while this was OBVIOUSLY primarily basketball motivated, investment has clearly been across the board in the athletic department and it’s paid dividends. Women’s Soccer just won their fourth straight valley championship (regular season and tournament), Women’s Cross Country won their third straight, Women’s Volleyball just clinched the regular season title with 2 games to go, Men’s Soccer has consistently finishing first or second as it jockeys with Missouri State - with two tourney appearances in the last 5 years. Men’s Golf won the Valley in spring. Across the board the programs have been growing.

That said, I really hope to see the Valley continue to have success. Belmont's a great add - and along with Murray State I think the league can still consistently at least compete for 2 bids. I also hope to see some valley teams on the non-con schedule in future years. I’ll really miss the battles with UNI and Bradley, those were super fun matchups. Plus Drake was an obviously budding rivalry and it was fun seeing Mullins grow at SIU. I think I can speak for most Loyola fans in saying I’m excited with where we’re going, but also extremely grateful for where we’ve been!

[IllinoisState]

Evansville and Valpo were the last two that we took on 'success' rather than 'potential' fwiw......

Missouri State, UNI and Loyola were all taken on 'potential'....

Missouri State's seasons leading into the MVC
89-90 22-7 9 seed NCAA tournament
88-89 21-10 14 seed NCAA tournament
87-88 22-7 13 seed NCAA tournament
86-87 28-6 13 seed NCAA tournament 2nd round
85-86 24-8
84-85 17-13
83-84 18-10
82-83 13-15
I wouldn't say we took them on potential.

UNI's season's leading into the MVC
90-91 13-19
89-90 23-9 14th seed NCAA tournament
88-89 19-9
87-88 10-18
86-87 13-15
85-86 8-19
84-85 12-16
I'd agree we took UNI on potential, but their seasons were mixed.

Loyola's seasons leading into the MVC
12-13 15-16
11-12 7-23
10-11 16-15
09-10 14-16
08-09 14-18
07-08 12-19
06-07 21-11
Loyola was definitely taken on potential

Now UTA (ignoring the current season)
20-21 13-13
19-20 14-18
18-19 17-16
17-18 21-13
16-17 27-9
15-16 24-11
14-15 16-15
They clearly have potential, but my problem with them is only partially their program and more lack of fan support, lack of media recognition (the whole point of adding a large far away market), being far away with large markets closer, not having private school money like Loyola, and being a branch school.

UMKC (ignoring the current season)
20-21 11-13
19-20 16-14
18-19 11-21
17-18 10-22
16-17 18-17
15-16 12-19
14-15 14-19
I guess their add would be "potential", but their one and only 20 win season was in 91-92 and they only have had 3 back to back winning seasons. They have even less fan support and media recognition and are also a branch school. If having a large school in a big and new market is important then the MVC can do better than Kansas City and a school with 17k students. Also, the Valley has already looked at them twice, they clearly are not up to snuff. The only positive is their location fits well in the current MVC footprint.

[E-Villan]

Evansville and Valpo were the last two that we took on 'success' rather than 'potential' fwiw......

Missouri State, UNI and Loyola were all taken on 'potential'....

I'm curious what "Potential" UNI had or has over Evansville, then or now?

We came into the league with a 40+ year track record of success at both D-1 and the old College Division. Remember, all those College Division wins were against most of the schools currently in the MVC. We were also the biggest gate in the league, well over 10K year in and out.

There is no question UNI has performed better on the court than us over the last decade plus...but again, what does that have to do with potential? Our budget, market and facilities are all in the upper half of the league, and despite the absolute suckitude of our on court performance, we still rank among the top in attendance each year. UNI on the other hand has mediocre facilities, a small market, and no real history of large attendance. I do recall you lecturing the Valpo board on how great your pool was, so I will concede that one to you.

UNI has done much better with their resources and decisions in the last decade, but what does that have to do with "potential"? If we ever get our heads out of our rears, I would say our "potential" or ceiling is still higher.

Looking across the conference, I really only see two red flags that are subpar to everyone else, the Indiana State basketball budget and Valpo's facilities. Other than that, there really isn't a place for much finger waving at anything else.

[usmcsaluki]

Kansas City isn't as bad as I thought they would be this year. 228 in Kenpom. ISU is 227. That's not good though. UTA is 281. That's horrible.

This will tank our SOS.

It isn't about what they are this year. It is about what they will be in the future if inside the MVC. They will spend more. They will have better facilities (assuming these things are in the agreement). Everyone gets so caught up in the past vs. what we could see in the future. What teams have done in the past doesn't matter. Loyola's national championship 50 years ago doesn't help us...But their Final 4 and Sweet 16 while being here does. People get so hung up in "tradition" around here.

I think the past does matter; the less of an impact they've made in past seasons can equate to what the future looks like. I'm of the mentality that the Valley needs to adamantly hold the line on *quality*; if it were up to me, it would be one invite to Murray State and that's it. We upgrade to 11, and then hold there until other Murray-level or better options are out there. The conference should be aggressive, but they need to be smart -don't just go after schools and programs that could turn out to be great; I'd rather keep the bar high with 11 and wait to see what there options become available.

[Kyle_Saluki_17]

Evansville and Valpo were the last two that we took on 'success' rather than 'potential' fwiw......

Missouri State, UNI and Loyola were all taken on 'potential'....

I'm curious what "Potential" UNI had or has over Evansville, then or now?

We came into the league with a 40+ year track record of success at both D-1 and the old College Division. Remember, all those College Division wins were against most of the schools currently in the MVC. We were also the biggest gate in the league, well over 10K year in and out.

There is no question UNI has performed better on the court than us over the last decade plus...but again, what does that have to do with potential? Our budget, market and facilities are all in the upper half of the league, and despite the absolute suckitude of our on court performance, we still rank among the top in attendance each year. UNI on the other hand has mediocre facilities, a small market, and no real history of large attendance. I do recall you lecturing the Valpo board on how great your pool was, so I will concede that one to you.

UNI has done much better with their resources and decisions in the last decade, but what does that have to do with "potential"? If we ever get our heads out of our rears, I would say our "potential" or ceiling is still higher.

Looking across the conference, I really only see two red flags that are subpar to everyone else, the Indiana State basketball budget and Valpo's facilities. Other than that, there really isn't a place for much finger waving at anything else.

I don't know the history well enough to agree or disagree with the original post, but I will add one note. I lived in Evansville for a couple of years between 2018-2020. Went to several MVC games while I lived there. They always seemed to have their tickets sold numbers to be around 5,500 or somewhere around there, but there was not a single person within spitting distance in any given direction most of the time. 5,500 tickets sold there seemingly equated to about 1,000 people at the game. It was EMPTY.

I even remember laughing at a newspaper article I saw one day titled "University of Evansville Setting Attendance Records." In the article, it literally had a picture of 2 fans surrounded by empty seats. Lol

[BCPanther]

Evansville and Valpo were the last two that we took on 'success' rather than 'potential' fwiw......

Missouri State, UNI and Loyola were all taken on 'potential'....

I'm curious what "Potential" UNI had or has over Evansville, then or now?

We came into the league with a 40+ year track record of success at both D-1 and the old College Division. Remember, all those College Division wins were against most of the schools currently in the MVC. We were also the biggest gate in the league, well over 10K year in and out.

There is no question UNI has performed better on the court than us over the last decade plus...but again, what does that have to do with potential? Our budget, market and facilities are all in the upper half of the league, and despite the absolute suckitude of our on court performance, we still rank among the top in attendance each year. UNI on the other hand has mediocre facilities, a small market, and no real history of large attendance. I do recall you lecturing the Valpo board on how great your pool was, so I will concede that one to you.

UNI has done much better with their resources and decisions in the last decade, but what does that have to do with "potential"? If we ever get our heads out of our rears, I would say our "potential" or ceiling is still higher.

Looking across the conference, I really only see two red flags that are subpar to everyone else, the Indiana State basketball budget and Valpo's facilities. Other than that, there really isn't a place for much finger waving at anything else.

At the time of add, not present day. No need to get all defensive.

UNI at the time was in the middle of a giant capital fundraising campaign that ended up quadrupling the athletics budget, built what was at the time a practice facility as much as they existed at the time (since given back to the academic side once the McLeod Center was built), re-did the north end of the Dome and renovated the West Gym (then home to VB, WBB). We had also only been out of DI transition for about 6 years.

What we've achieved on the court considering our limitations is pretty damn remarkable.

And you've got the wrong guy about the Valpo board, I'm not sure I've ever taken more than a cursory glance at it and that's just because I respect the hell out of VUGrad.

[Buxcies]

I’ve always been in favor of being a regionally based league where the majority of trips can be made via bus. We’re not the Big Ten or the SEC and never will. That being said, maybe it is time for us to expand. The A-10 has had a slightly better basketball track record the last decade (excluding Loyola’s Final Four run) but the perception is that they are a more nationally recognized brand. Fordham doesn’t control the NYC market but they are there. Same can be said about St. Joseph’s in Philly and George Mason/George Washington in DC. We need to identify programs that have the potential to create the perception that we are a national brand and I think UTA and Belmont both do that. Belmont is an established program in a good market, UTA has potential and is in one of the top markets in the country. Murray State isn’t in a great market but they are such a solid program that adding them is a no brainer.

If we’re willing to expand geographically a bit, maybe we look at schools like Denver, St. Thomas, New Orleans in a few years if they can prove to have some sustained basketball success. I would currently put UMKC in this same category and am not excited about their addition at all at this time.