Long term effects of COVID on attendance

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Re: Long term effects of COVID on attendance

Postby glm38 » February 7th, 2022, 6:25 pm

Aces44 wrote:.


Educate myself?? Are you in healthcare? Are you a healthcare professional? I'm assuming not due to the nonsense you are spouting. You obviously wouldn't know a fact if it ihit you in the face. I'll just leave you to your conspiracy theories. How sad for you.[/quote]

Who sounds more like a conspiracy theorist?
A) someone who thinks Vit D and Body Fat % contributes to one’s healthy immune system
B) or someone who doesn’t.[/quote]

And just where did I say a vitamin d deficiency and obesity weren't risk factors?? They are. But that's a small part of the picture and we certainly aren't curing people of obesity in the middle of a pandemic. Or even outside an epidemic based on obesity trends the past few decades.

I'm talking about your misinformation regarding the vaccine and masking. That's what conspiracy theorist keyboard warriors like yourself do and most have never seen the inside of a covid ward or an ER. And have absolutely no health care education or experience. Seeing as you didn't answer that question I'm guessing that you have no such experience or education and that description fits you to a T.
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Re: Long term effects of COVID on attendance

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Re: Long term effects of COVID on attendance

Postby Aces44 » February 7th, 2022, 6:27 pm

You are wrong. The new data points this out very clearly.
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Re: Long term effects of COVID on attendance

Postby BEARZ77 » February 7th, 2022, 6:48 pm

Aces44 wrote:You are wrong. The new data points this out very clearly.


Sources and/or links or nicely stfu. My source is the Proceedings of the National Academy on Sciences of the United States of America article dated 1/26/21: "An Evidence Review of Face Masks Against Covid 19" which basically says your full of crap. But I knew that because I also am a 40 year healthcare professional who counts many doctors, nurses, and healthcare administrators among my circle , liberal and conservative alike, and not a one endorses what you spout. I get not wanting to wear a mask, and I'm fine if your personal choice is to not wear one. But don't lie and distort information ; just say I'm stupid , stubborn, and inconsiderate, and want things the way I want them . That's defensible, being a liar isn't.
Last edited by BEARZ77 on February 7th, 2022, 7:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Long term effects of COVID on attendance

Postby 05Racer » February 7th, 2022, 6:55 pm

Aces44 wrote:
05Racer wrote:
RacerJoeD wrote:One problem with calling up the National Guard is that in many if not most cases, medical professionals in the guard are medical professionals in civilian life too, so calling them up might just be robbing Peter to pay Paul.

But you are right, more support is needed for our medical professionals.


I had not even considered that. Good catch. Bottom line is the government needs to be putting more money into supporting our healthcare infrastructure and human resources. Only way to decrease costs is to increase supply. Private industry will never generate enough capacity to sustain the system through a crisis like COVID, because it's more profitable to cut it as close as you possibly can with very little excess capacity. That's why we have problems with overworked staff and burnout. You need excess capacity which is short term inefficient but critically necessary in times of crisis. Have to incentivize the supply side. Build more hospitals, train more doctors, more nurses, maybe even a shorter work week to build excess capacity into the system.


Spoken like someone who has never taken an Econ class.

More Government is a problem, not a solution. At least it’s never been in the history of time. Maybe this time is different….


Actually I have taken an econ class, and if you had too you might know what an externality is, or why private markets can fail to achieve optimal outcomes in the case of management of common goods, which are goods that are held in common by all members of a community/society. The most common example is with fish. Anyone can buy a fishing boat and use it to catch fish, but if everyone did that and everybody was allowed to catch all the fish they want, there would eventually be no fish for anybody, because we would run out of fish. In this case, the fish are limited in number and only one person at a time can eat them so everybody is competing over a set number of fish. The supply of fish is limited not by any economic reality, but a physical one, fish can reproduce only so fast and people have long been able to catch them much faster. A supply of hospital beds is similar. Only one person at a time can make use of it and there are only so many to go around. Unlike fish, however, it is an economic reality that creates the situation with hospital beds. Private industry will supply hospital beds, but only so many so that enough of them are filled most of the time in order to maximize profits. They don't account for once in a generation events like COVID because it isn't profitable to do so. So, when we have a situation where we need more nurses/doctors/hospital beds, the private market runs out quickly. Private markets are great for optimizing profits, but not for dealing with unexpected events.

So, in order to ensure we have enough capacity to handle disasters, we need excess capacity, which is, by definition, not profitable. Some of this can be provided by non-profits and charity groups, but some government intervention is necessary and required. Roads are another good example of a common good in that everyone can use them but they too have a fixed capacity. We don't think of roads as a 'good' because government has always built roads even going back to ancient civilizations who had no concept of economics, but they could theoretically be privatized and you'd end up with similar problems. Some areas with lots of businesses and wealthy people would have great roads and other areas would have nothing. Any time you have a common good provided entirely by private markets, it will almost always create a shortage and/or overuse, it's pretty much a rule.

So, given that, the rising cost of healthcare should come as no great surprise. Now, it would be dishonest if I didn't mention that the existence of employer provided health insurance and the insurance industry in general also raise costs by limiting competition, but that's another can of worms entirely. Even if the healthcare industry was a purely private capitalist market, and it isn't, there would still be too little supply.

The other thing an economics class would teach you is that an optimal economic outcome is not necessarily the same as an optimal social outcome. The former is somewhat of a mathematical formula based on data and/or best estimates, the latter can be different based on the values and priorities of different cultures. Like other values dependent debates, it's not easy to determine and not everybody is going to agree.
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Re: Long term effects of COVID on attendance

Postby Drakey » February 7th, 2022, 7:24 pm

glm38 wrote:
Aces44 wrote:.


Educate myself?? Are you in healthcare? Are you a healthcare professional? I'm assuming not due to the nonsense you are spouting. You obviously wouldn't know a fact if it ihit you in the face. I'll just leave you to your conspiracy theories. How sad for you.


Who sounds more like a conspiracy theorist?
A) someone who thinks Vit D and Body Fat % contributes to one’s healthy immune system
B) or someone who doesn’t.[/quote]

And just where did I say a vitamin d deficiency and obesity weren't risk factors?? They are. But that's a small part of the picture and we certainly aren't curing people of obesity in the middle of a pandemic. Or even outside an epidemic based on obesity trends the past few decades.

I'm talking about your misinformation regarding the vaccine and masking. That's what conspiracy theorist keyboard warriors like yourself do and most have never seen the inside of a covid ward or an ER. And have absolutely no health care education or experience. Seeing as you didn't answer that question I'm guessing that you have no such experience or education and that description fits you to a T.[/quote]

You are wasting your breath and time.
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Re: Long term effects of COVID on attendance

Postby glm38 » February 7th, 2022, 7:32 pm

Drakey you are probably right.
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Re: Long term effects of COVID on attendance

Postby bleach » February 7th, 2022, 7:32 pm

glm38 wrote:
Educate myself?? Are you in healthcare? Are you a healthcare professional? I'm assuming not due to the nonsense you are spouting. You obviously wouldn't know a fact if it ihit you in the face. I'll just leave you to your conspiracy theories. How sad for you.


I understand your position but I guess i've missed the conspiracy theory you keep citing. He is correct that the pharma industry has made out like a bandit. I build pharma equipment for a living and there is no shortage of funds for them and they are pretty demanding. We deal with supply shortages, labor shortages, and illnesses just like every other industry but no mercy is given.
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Re: Long term effects of COVID on attendance

Postby bleach » February 7th, 2022, 7:46 pm

I would recommend everyone listen to/watch Dr John Campbell. Data driven with a healthcare background. He is neither pro nor con but simply looks at data evidence. I think both "sides" could learn something. He's not in my camp but I can't argue his facts largely driven by government data.
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Re: Long term effects of COVID on attendance

Postby glm38 » February 7th, 2022, 8:05 pm

bleach wrote:
glm38 wrote:
Educate myself?? Are you in healthcare? Are you a healthcare professional? I'm assuming not due to the nonsense you are spouting. You obviously wouldn't know a fact if it ihit you in the face. I'll just leave you to your conspiracy theories. How sad for you.


I understand your position but I guess i've missed the conspiracy theory you keep citing. He is correct that the pharma industry has made out like a bandit. I build pharma equipment for a living and there is no shortage of funds for them and they are pretty demanding. We deal with supply shortages, labor shortages, and illnesses just like every other industry but no mercy is given.


It's pretty simple.
Conspiracy theory in regard to thinking the vaccine and masking are ineffective despite epidemiologists and pretty much all of the major health care institutions like mayo, Cleveland clinic, John Hopkins, etc saying they are effective. And vital to save lives. They think it's all a big conspiracy and that those physicians and health care institutions are in on it. Many even think practicing physicians and nurses are in on inflating and skewing covid numbers for their own gain. Which is all ridiculous and total nonsense. :|

Of course pharmacy companies that developed the vaccine are making money. They actually deserve to. Whether it's too much is another matter and totally outside what I'm talking about.
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Re: Long term effects of COVID on attendance

Postby Aces44 » February 7th, 2022, 8:35 pm

I never said anything about a conspiracy theory, nor did I attack any healthcare workers.

Also: I’m not in charge of all the states and municipalities that are removing the mask mandates… maybe they have some data that has helped guide their decisions…

Not that I care what anyone thinks, but Being an ambulance driver doesn’t help you extrapolate data better than anyone else, so don’t act like being in the field means much when it comes to reading and understanding clinical data.

I’m out. I’ve got bigger issues to deal with. Enjoy your evening.
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