Another Expansion/Realignment Thread

[IllinoisState]

As I said, the Presidents make the decision and their priorities are not mostly aligned with those of athletic departments, or fans. They care about what puts tuition dollars in their coffers first and foremost. We’re hitting an enrollment cliff and I bet that most Presidents don’t really care about UMKCs lack of basketball success. They like the recruiting market and the regional presence.

I understand and I know that it means the MVC will look at schools I might not fully be on board with at least initially. However, I think it still stands that people not caring about UMKC means they wont care about going to other MVC schools.

In this hypothetical situation I'd look at UW-Milwaukee, UT-Arlington, Little Rock, Chattanooga, ETSU, St. Thomas, Detroit, Oakland, Lipscomb, Bellarmine, Southern Indiana, and Purdue University Fort Wayne over UMKC or Omaha. I'd probably stay away from the Dakotas because the population is sparse and would probably only want one of them while they would probably want some sort of package deal.

This isn't necessarily just a reply to you, but this take is basically the same approach the Horizon League has used. It doesn't work for athletics or enrollment. In fact, it's one of the reasons schools want to leave the Horizon League.

Oakland, for instance and per their website, has a student population that's about 92% from Michigan and all but about 6% of that is from its home and neighboring counties. They play in many major metro areas every year.

Sports can help your school with visibility, but you can't suck. Most of the programs on the lists in this thread suck and the rest of them are unrealistic options.

All that said, I don't disagree that some presidents think that way...it's wrongheaded, but they do a lot of dumb things despite being smart people.

Doing something makes people think you're trying, I guess.

I agree. I don't think that there's a better team out there that would join the MVC that's not on my list. There's no home run option any more.

[Chuck A]

While they may get more money now, the next contract will be coming. I can almost guarantee it won’t nearly be as much as the current one. Granted, the new AAC teams did very well last season and should do reasonably well this season, especially Florida Atlantic. The question of course is will any of those teams sustain or improve upon that success or will they fall back into mediocrity? I would surmise ESPN and the other AAC media partners would have some thoughts on that!

The new AAC teams also have no real name caché!

I’m going to revisit this about Wichita State since there are a few games before conference play begins in earnest. I’ve been watching American games in addition to Valley games, A-10 games, Bellarmine, Kansas City and NKU. MissouriValleyUnite posted that the AAC media contract is up in 2032. That’ll be plenty of time for those teams that just joined the AAC to fall back to their original selves and, without Cincinnati, Houston, UCF (for football) gone and SMU leaving, Memphis is really the only “name” team left. In my opinion, the AAC won’t get P5-type money…not even close to what they got with the aforementioned teams. So what do the Wheatshockers do? I’m going to go out on a limb right now and say Wichita State comes back to The Valley…tail between their legs and all. Right now, the AAC is 9th behind the Valley’s #8 rating. Sure things can change, but I see The Valley trending up while the American is dipping. Outside of FAU (which stumbled out of the gate a bit) and Memphis, what team does this league have that could be the “flagship” of this conference. It was a money grab for WSU in leaving, but now it looks like that kind of money will be substantially less. Come on back home Shockers!

[MissouriValleyUnite]

Wichita State makes $2 million yearly in media revenue from the AAC through 2032. Their membership contract calls for a $5 million exit fee. Wichita returning to the MVC before 2032 isn't in the realm of possibility.

Also, any travel savings would be minimal, if they even exist.

MVC
MSU 4 hours
Drake 5.5 hours
MVCT 6.5 hours

AAC
Tulsa 2.5 hours
UNT 4.5 hours
AACT 5 hours

Everywhere else is a flight - but AAC schools are located near more airport hubs.

[Chuck A]

Wichita State makes $2 million yearly in media revenue from the AAC through 2032. Their membership contract calls for a $5 million exit fee. Wichita returning to the MVC before 2032 isn't in the realm of possibility.

Also, any travel savings would be minimal, if they even exist.

MVC
MSU 4 hours
Drake 5.5 hours
MVCT 6.5 hours

AAC
Tulsa 2.5 hours
UNT 4.5 hours
AACT 5 hours

Everywhere else is a flight - but AAC schools are located near more airport hubs.

I hear ya, but I’m still out on that limb!

[TylerDurden]

Wichita State makes $2 million yearly in media revenue from the AAC through 2032. Their membership contract calls for a $5 million exit fee. Wichita returning to the MVC before 2032 isn't in the realm of possibility.

Also, any travel savings would be minimal, if they even exist.

MVC
MSU 4 hours
Drake 5.5 hours
MVCT 6.5 hours

AAC
Tulsa 2.5 hours
UNT 4.5 hours
AACT 5 hours

Everywhere else is a flight - but AAC schools are located near more airport hubs.

I hear ya, but I’m still out on that limb!

Be cafeful. That's more like a twig that's already damaged.

[ColonialBulldog]

St Thomas is a football school. I don't think they'll join the mvc or a10. I think they'll eventually go scholarship and join the CUSA. They're getting the basketball center done soon. Next will be a new football stadium

I hear what you are saying and agree with the overall point of them being a football school, but going straight from non-scholarship Pioneer League to C-USA is impossible. It just could not feasibly happen. The absolute most optimistic path to FBS would require at least a 6-8 year stay in scholarship FCS. If UST were hypothetically invited to the MVC/MVFC you would basically have a guarantee that they'd be sticking around for a decade at worst. Now, whether or not that is "worth it" for the Valley is totally subjective.

As an aside, UST has basically nothing in common with any current C-USA schools culturally or academically. That would be a very odd fit for them.

[Drakey]

Wichita State makes $2 million yearly in media revenue from the AAC through 2032. Their membership contract calls for a $5 million exit fee. Wichita returning to the MVC before 2032 isn't in the realm of possibility.

I agree it is not going to happen, but what good doe that 2 million do for them? It has not made their basketball program better or more visible. What do they do with that money? If you could have a national champion program every year that produced little or no revenue would you take that? Yes. Would most schools pick that over a perennial loser that makes several million a year? I would think so.

WSU was in the NCAA tournament in each of their last six years in the Valley. They were in a National Semifinal and in a regional semifinal. They never lost a first round game. They were well on their way to becoming Gonzaga 2. Since leaving the Valley they made the tourney the year after they left with their carryover team. They made the play in game once since when they lost to Drake in 2021. They are not anywhere as well known nationally as they were when they left the Valley. Is their program as good? Are their teams as good? They apparently have more money.

[BEARZ77]

Missouri State made an interesting announcement yesterday, that being they are adding two new women's sports, "Acrobatics and Tumbling", and "Stunt". Both are evidently becoming very popular and will bring MSU to 19 sports , 13 women and 6 men. Part of the reason is Missouri State has a high female undergrad population % and some have said needed to add these to match title 9 requirements related to student population percentages.I do believe these probably don't require a lot of recruitment as I think it's a way you can start to count some of your cheering and dance teams as scholarship athletes by participating formally in a few more competitions than they already do.

Of course some of the football crowd hopes it's in anticipation of needing to add women's sports to compensate for the additional 20+ scholys you'll need to account for in title 9 if you go to FBS. I think it's more the first explanation and Smart simply tying up loose ends before his retirement , but it may include some foresight planning for the possibility of FBS down the road. That would fit with Smart's consistent statements of just wanting to be in position if a move presents itself, but not necessarily pursuing it.

Either way, good for the Cheerleaders and Dance teams. Participation to start in the 24-25 school year.

[Chuck A]

By the way, right now The American is the 11th rated Conference in the land, 2 and sometimes 3 spots behind The MVC as the Valley goes back and forth with the A-10 between 8th and 9th place. The Wheatshockers also have a 97 NET rating, which would put them 5th in the MVC behind Indiana State (12), Drake, (49), UIC (71) and SIU (72).

[oneNEIGHBOR]

Wichita State makes $2 million yearly in media revenue from the AAC through 2032. Their membership contract calls for a $5 million exit fee. Wichita returning to the MVC before 2032 isn't in the realm of possibility.

I agree it is not going to happen, but what good doe that 2 million do for them? It has not made their basketball program better or more visible. What do they do with that money? If you could have a national champion program every year that produced little or no revenue would you take that? Yes. Would most schools pick that over a perennial loser that makes several million a year? I would think so.

WSU was in the NCAA tournament in each of their last six years in the Valley. They were in a National Semifinal and in a regional semifinal. They never lost a first round game. They were well on their way to becoming Gonzaga 2. Since leaving the Valley they made the tourney the year after they left with their carryover team. They made the play in game once since when they lost to Drake in 2021. They are not anywhere as well known nationally as they were when they left the Valley. Is their program as good? Are their teams as good? They apparently have more money.

WSU definitely isn't as strong of a team as when we left the Valley, and truthfully due to the coaching turnover would expect to be in a similar or worse hole if we'd have stayed put.. But that aside the opportunity for visibility is higher in the American based on how the TV slots are given out. This season the Shocks will play on the ESPN family of networks (ESPN, ESPN2 or ESPNU) at least 15 times and have a game at Memphis scheduled for a CBS broadcast.