Another Expansion/Realignment Thread

[MissouriValleyUnite]

In that situation, I'm sure they'd prefer the A10...but I don't think the A10 would prefer them.

Also, the AAC has gone downhill - that's undeniable - but so has Wichita State.

Gregg, as much of a complete a$$ as he was/is, had some damn good teams and was the one who made WSU a perennial top 25 team.

WSU, for all of its capacity and potential, wasn't destroying the league year in and year out before he arrived. Turgeon had them competitive, but he had as many regular season titles at Brian Wardle, didn't win Arch Madness (then the Creighton Invitational) and his last MVC team went 8-10 and finished 6th place in the league.

The right coach can make it really happen there, but that coach is a hard thing to find.

Without football, they're in no-man's land. The MVC is the best spot for them in a lot of ways, but not so much in others. When they left the MVC they put themselves into the FBS chaos. There's pluses and minuses, but it's where the live now.

That last Turgeon team might've been the most mystifying MVC team ever. They went from #8 ranking in the AP Poll at X-Mas time to an 8-14 collapse the rest of the way. Turgeon was then hired by Texas A&M after the season.

MVC was top-6 in RPI again that year and somehow only got 2 teams in.

[mvfcfan]

Oregon State and Washington State are joining the WCC for the next two seasons. Will they now be eligible for the prestigious Mid Major Top 25 poll? Asking for a friend.

[VUGrad1314]

This seemingly locks Gonzaga into place for the next two years. It will be great for the league's metrics especially if St Mary's rebounds from a down season next year (even Gonzaga is a bit down from where they've been the past few years). Not sure what will happen after that. This is not good for the MVC in when it comes to our hopes of being a consistent two bid league again. Oregon State and Washington State should be solid enough to add real depth to the conference beyond their usual 3 or so top 100 teams.

[TylerDurden]

This seemingly locks Gonzaga into place for the next two years. It will be great for the league's metrics especially if St Mary's rebounds from a down season next year (even Gonzaga is a bit down from where they've been the past few years). Not sure what will happen after that. This is not good for the MVC in when it comes to our hopes of being a consistent two bid league again. Oregon State and Washington State should be solid enough to add real depth to the conference beyond their usual 3 or so top 100 teams.

I think you might be overvaluing what Oregon State and Washington State are as basketball programs. You also can't assume Pac 12 recruits in the WCC, so you can't assume they'll be the same teams...which leads me to the main point: these are both pretty bad programs.

Even with the luxury of playing in a power conference, Oregon State has been to two NCAAs in 34 years and Washington State hasn't been to the NCAA tournament in 17 years.

So you're taking bad programs and putting them in a worse league in a world where the transfer portal exists and expect them to be quality depth?

I think that's a bold assumption.

These two weren't left behind by accident. They are two of the three lowest basketball budgets in the Pac 12 and Washington State athletics has a $75-100 million deficit (depending on what source you use) it's trying to work through.

They parked programs in the WCC to save money.

All this doesn't mean that the WCC shouldn't be glad to have them, but from a basketball perspective, they aren't likely to move the needle one way or another.

[Roberts Stadium]

I can't find any good message boards for the OVC or Horizon League. Are there any rumors about them adding more teams? I guess they could stay at an uneven amount of teams but I would have thought the Horizon League would have eventually worked to replace UIC and the OVC would bring someone else in with Western Illinois.

[Chuck A]

I can't find any good message boards for the OVC or Horizon League. Are there any rumors about them adding more teams? I guess they could stay at an uneven amount of teams but I would have thought the Horizon League would have eventually worked to replace UIC and the OVC would bring someone else in with Western Illinois.

The message board for the HL is http://www.horizonleaguefans.freeforums.net
In my opinion, the Horizon will have a tough time going to 12 or even 14 teams. They seem content with what they have. The candidates/choices are pretty thin. The expansion moves now are largely based on football… that is, FBS football. Are there enough D1 non-football focused schools in the Midwest/East that could help the HL? Bellarmine? St. Thomas? Chicago State? I actually thought Chi State would be added by the OVC although they would be a good addition for both leagues. The HL also needs to think about a team that has baseball.

[squirrel]

I have often wondered if Robert Morris isn't second-thinking their Horizon move. I really liked the move for them when it happened, but they have not been able to compete since making the move.

[Bulldog4life24]

I can't find any good message boards for the OVC or Horizon League. Are there any rumors about them adding more teams? I guess they could stay at an uneven amount of teams but I would have thought the Horizon League would have eventually worked to replace UIC and the OVC would bring someone else in with Western Illinois.

The message board for the HL is http://www.horizonleaguefans.freeforums.net
In my opinion, the Horizon will have a tough time going to 12 or even 14 teams. They seem content with what they have. The candidates/choices are pretty thin. The expansion moves now are largely based on football… that is, FBS football. Are there enough D1 non-football focused schools in the Midwest/East that could help the HL? Bellarmine? St. Thomas? Chicago State? I actually thought Chi State would be added by the OVC although they would be a good addition for both leagues. The HL also needs to think about a team that has baseball.

St Thomas is football focused. Part of the reason they moved up is all of their previous D3 rivals kicked them out of their conference. They want to be FBS someday

[squirrel]

This seemingly locks Gonzaga into place for the next two years. It will be great for the league's metrics especially if St Mary's rebounds from a down season next year (even Gonzaga is a bit down from where they've been the past few years). Not sure what will happen after that. This is not good for the MVC in when it comes to our hopes of being a consistent two bid league again. Oregon State and Washington State should be solid enough to add real depth to the conference beyond their usual 3 or so top 100 teams.

I think you might be overvaluing what Oregon State and Washington State are as basketball programs. You also can't assume Pac 12 recruits in the WCC, so you can't assume they'll be the same teams...which leads me to the main point: these are both pretty bad programs.

Even with the luxury of playing in a power conference, Oregon State has been to two NCAAs in 34 years and Washington State hasn't been to the NCAA tournament in 17 years.

So you're taking bad programs and putting them in a worse league in a world where the transfer portal exists and expect them to be quality depth?

I think that's a bold assumption.

These two weren't left behind by accident. They are two of the three lowest basketball budgets in the Pac 12 and Washington State athletics has a $75-100 million deficit (depending on what source you use) it's trying to work through.

They parked programs in the WCC to save money.

All this doesn't mean that the WCC shouldn't be glad to have them, but from a basketball perspective, they aren't likely to move the needle one way or another.

You can't use this kind of logic, though. I always use the 1995-forward A10 as an example:

In 1995

Duquesne (0 NCAAs 1979-1995)
Geo Washington (NCAAs 1993, 1994)
UMass (NCAAs 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995)
St. Bonaventure (0 NCAAs 1979-1995)
Rhode Island (NCAAs 1988, 1993)
Temple (1989 only NCAA miss 1984-; 3 Elite 8s between 1988 and 1993)
St. Joe's (NCAAs 1981, 1982, 1986)

Said goodbye to Rutgers and West Virginia and welcomed

Virginia Tech (NCAAs 1980, 1985, 1986)
Xavier (9 NCAAs 1983-1995)
LaSalle (National power in the 1980's: 6 NCAAs 1982-1994)
Dayton (NCAAs 1984, 1985, 1990)
Fordham (entered winning 3 Patriot League titles 1991-94, NCAA in 1992)

At the time, the expectations were that Fordham, La Salle and Xavier were the good adds.

[Birdfan2018]

This seemingly locks Gonzaga into place for the next two years. It will be great for the league's metrics especially if St Mary's rebounds from a down season next year (even Gonzaga is a bit down from where they've been the past few years). Not sure what will happen after that. This is not good for the MVC in when it comes to our hopes of being a consistent two bid league again. Oregon State and Washington State should be solid enough to add real depth to the conference beyond their usual 3 or so top 100 teams.

I think you might be overvaluing what Oregon State and Washington State are as basketball programs. You also can't assume Pac 12 recruits in the WCC, so you can't assume they'll be the same teams...which leads me to the main point: these are both pretty bad programs.

Even with the luxury of playing in a power conference, Oregon State has been to two NCAAs in 34 years and Washington State hasn't been to the NCAA tournament in 17 years.

So you're taking bad programs and putting them in a worse league in a world where the transfer portal exists and expect them to be quality depth?

I think that's a bold assumption.

These two weren't left behind by accident. They are two of the three lowest basketball budgets in the Pac 12 and Washington State athletics has a $75-100 million deficit (depending on what source you use) it's trying to work through.

They parked programs in the WCC to save money.

All this doesn't mean that the WCC shouldn't be glad to have them, but from a basketball perspective, they aren't likely to move the needle one way or another.

You can't use this kind of logic, though. I always use the 1995-forward A10 as an example:

In 1995

Duquesne (0 NCAAs 1979-1995)
Geo Washington (NCAAs 1993, 1994)
UMass (NCAAs 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995)
St. Bonaventure (0 NCAAs 1979-1995)
Rhode Island (NCAAs 1988, 1993)
Temple (1989 only NCAA miss 1984-; 3 Elite 8s between 1988 and 1993)
St. Joe's (NCAAs 1981, 1982, 1986)

Said goodbye to Rutgers and West Virginia and welcomed

Virginia Tech (NCAAs 1980, 1985, 1986)
Xavier (9 NCAAs 1983-1995)
LaSalle (National power in the 1980's: 6 NCAAs 1982-1994)
Dayton (NCAAs 1984, 1985, 1990)
Fordham (entered winning 3 Patriot League titles 1991-94, NCAA in 1992)

At the time, the expectations were that Fordham, La Salle and Xavier were the good adds.

Not sure about Rutgers, but don’t think West Virginia was ever a member of the A-10