Another Expansion/Realignment Thread

[Chuck A]

I don't think WKU is going to the MAC. CUSA has a GOR in place a move would be expensive for any member to break that. I think the MAC's only hope of getting to 14 is Illinois State. As for the MVC I think NKU is an example of getting it right. The perfect candidate doesn't exist at this point. We'd all like South Dakota State but as the video points out performance is the only metric they check and they aren't Murray State at that level either. And this assumes they are interested because they have it made in the Summit. Wright State fits so well if we go beyond 12 and then it's a toss up between Milwaukee and St Thomas (Assuming St Thomas is even allowed to leave if they're beholden to the Summit we'll have to wait but St Thomas would have the edge over Milwaukee. If ISU leaves we take both and don't really think about it. I think the added media coverage of getting Ohio Wisconsin and Minnesota offsets the loss of KC well enough. Arlington checks a lot of boxes but they're just so isolated even with the direct flights. It's also possible (with the lack of direct flights to Cincinnati for Iowa) that we don't expand yet and wait but of course the enrollment cliff almost necessitates expansion into these markets I just hope we take the right schools to elevate the league or that the league membership elevates the schools to get better if they've been lagging performance wise but the commitment and infrastructure seems to be there for these schools. The more I think about the potential positives each of these schools brings the more excited I am about the possibility of one or more of them joining. Growing (or maintaining) our basketball strength while also growing our media presence and student recruitment are all good things.

NKU: Nice arena Wants to make basketball more visible Hoops crazed area Solid attendance Good performance

Wright State: Nice arena Good attendance Hoops crazed area Solid attendance Solid overall athletic department Rivalry with NKU and other MVC members

Milwaukee: Trending upward Good support of MBB Good attendance when team is strong New Practice facility shows commitment

St Thomas: Huge endowment Seemingly solid athletics Beautiful new arena incoming Biggest potential of the bunch

Speak for yourself. I DO NOT WANT SOUTH DAKOTA STATE! AT ALL! UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE!!!

[BCPanther]

Since joining the MVC, several teams have flown into Murray's airport via charter. Is this more expensive than flying commercial? I ask because of the talk on UTA. Its a 10 hour drive from Murray.

It's not about cost to fly MBB in, they're going to fly private regardless. It's about the travel costs for non-revenues and getting into Dallas is much, much cheaper than getting into smaller college towns.

[E-Villan]

NKU has just rolled out a significant increase in it's MBB ticket pricing for next season. Could this be in anticipation of a conference jump?

https://new.express.adobe.com/webpage/9 ... hdvSmzAtc6


I couldn't find a NKU message board, but one of our posters provided a link to a fan facebook group that appears to function as their message board. Norse Nation. Two things from that group. They are not happy about the new pricing structure and most of them don't appear in favor of a MVC move. It seems we may want them more than they want us.

[tribecalledquest]

NKU has just rolled out a significant increase in it's MBB ticket pricing for next season. Could this be in anticipation of a conference jump?

https://new.express.adobe.com/webpage/9 ... hdvSmzAtc6


I couldn't find a NKU message board, but one of our posters provided a link to a fan facebook group that appears to function as their message board. Norse Nation. Two things from that group. They are not happy about the new pricing structure and most of them don't appear in favor of a MVC move. It seems we may want them more than they want us.

I understand not wanting to go to a league where it will be harder to win. You go from a one bid league to MAYBE a 1.5 bid league and it's harder to win. Not a great deal really.

[ReZyNeZy]

NKU has just rolled out a significant increase in it's MBB ticket pricing for next season. Could this be in anticipation of a conference jump?

https://new.express.adobe.com/webpage/9 ... hdvSmzAtc6


I couldn't find a NKU message board, but one of our posters provided a link to a fan facebook group that appears to function as their message board. Norse Nation. Two things from that group. They are not happy about the new pricing structure and most of them don't appear in favor of a MVC move. It seems we may want them more than they want us.

I can see that this new ticketing system is related to paying scholarships for athletes. Honestly, I would be all for this to be adopted at most schools. I am all for getting kids scholarships.

[BEARZ77]

Yeah, actually moving up to the MVC has been the start of a slow death for most programs joining since 1990. Loyola was an exception, and UNI obviously rebounded , but it took 12 years as they made the NCAA Tourney in 1990, joined the Valley I think in 92,and then made it back to the NCAA Tourney in 2004. Missouri St had made the NCAA Tourney 4 of the previous 5 years before joining, made it the first year in the MVC 1992, and has made only one NCAA since. UE had made 3 NCAA Tourneys and 2 NIT in the 7 years before joining in 94-95; they've made I NCAA [98/99] since. Valpo had made 3 NIT and 2 NCAA Tourneys in the 5 years prior to joining the MVC in 2017, nothing since. In the 12 years prior to joining the MVC Belmont had 6 NCAA trips and 4 NIT, nothing since joining. Murray St had made the NCAA 3 of the 5 previous seasons before joining, nothing since.Even a longer term member like Illinois St hasn't made an NCAA tourney since 1998 I believe.

[MissouriValleyUnite]

Murray/Belmont are 2-year sample sizes. Murray came in having lost its entire roster. Belmont hasn't been to the NCAAs since the HOF coach retired 5 years ago. 3 of those in the OVC, 2 in the MVC. Their KenPom has been essentially the same in those 5 years.

You bring up long-time member Illinois St, yet omit long-time members Creighton, Wichita St, Bradley, and Drake.

Sports are a zero-sum game. There's going to be winners and losers, and they always equal out. You can point to winners the MVC benefitted like Creighton, Wichita St, Loyola, & UNI. You can point to programs who ended up on the short end of the stick like Evansville, Missouri St, Illinois St, & Valparaiso. You can rinse/repeat for almost every conference.

No matter what, you'll always end up with equal amounts on both sides of the ledger...because sports are zero-sum. Every example above can be explained away by whether the school nailed their coaching hire, and the timeline of when they nailed it.

[TOPSTRAIGHT]

AT this point I hope we don't move up. People talking about it being more when and not if and even a few people mentioning the C-USA isn't something I want to hear.

Hearing from several reliable sources that CUSA is Done at TWELVE. Also do Not think they would seriously consider Illinois St. anyway since they are too far North. IMO the Redbirds stay MVC--but "might" consider the MAC if invited AND they get enough internal/booster support.

ALSO--WKU is NOT going to the MAC--that is off the table--for Many reasons that I'm sure most here don't have the time to read about.

Illinois St. IS a possible candidate. They are one of a handful on the list for the MAC's #14 school. They just check too many boxes not to be considered.

A lot of discussion here including Illinois State.
https://csnbbs.com/thread-970449-page-26.html

I agree that the MVC may wait a while till they know for sure from the folks in Normal. JMHO--but going past twelve would be a mistake.

[BEARZ77]

Murray/Belmont are 2-year sample sizes. Murray came in having lost its entire roster. Belmont hasn't been to the NCAAs since the HOF coach retired 5 years ago. 3 of those in the OVC, 2 in the MVC. Their KenPom has been essentially the same in those 5 years.

You bring up long-time member Illinois St, yet omit long-time members Creighton, Wichita St, Bradley, and Drake.

Sports are a zero-sum game. There's going to be winners and losers, and they always equal out. You can point to winners the MVC benefitted like Creighton, Wichita St, Loyola, & UNI. You can point to programs who ended up on the short end of the stick like Evansville, Missouri St, Illinois St, & Valparaiso. You can rinse/repeat for almost every conference.

No matter what, you'll always end up with equal amounts on both sides of the ledger...because sports are zero-sum. Every example above can be explained away by whether the school nailed their coaching hire, and the timeline of when they nailed it.

I was referencing teams that moved up from lower conferences after 1990 to join the Valley. Creighton and WSU were already there. I wasn't blaming the Valley, just the thinking that moving up is always the right play as we were discussing NKU maybe being hesitant. The facts say it hasn't been a good play for the majority of teams joining since 1990 if the measuring stick is NCAA appearances just prior to moving and then the results since. Obviously Loyola made it work, but also had a bit more $$$$ to work with once they decided to. UNI has had remarkable across the board success, but it did take 12 years to get that 1st NCAA tourney bid after moving. There are lots of other examples both ways, Tulsa chased football and hurt themselves and WSU just shot themselves with moving and Gregg; Davidson is another who has taken a bit of a drop since moving up. On the other hand Creighton and Butler are 2 who have taken advantage of their jump to the BE. Remember Belmont was very hesitant for a number of years. I'm just saying moving between leagues that don't have markedly better NCAA opportunities , which today means most MM leagues, is risky if you have been making the tourney where you're at. Wasn't the case in the 90's so much , but now with the increased push to put every P5 team in the tourney, at MM expense , it's more of a question .

[IllinoisState]

AT this point I hope we don't move up. People talking about it being more when and not if and even a few people mentioning the C-USA isn't something I want to hear.

Hearing from several reliable sources that CUSA is Done at TWELVE. Also do Not think they would seriously consider Illinois St. anyway since they are too far North. IMO the Redbirds stay MVC--but "might" consider the MAC if invited AND they get enough internal/booster support.

ALSO--WKU is NOT going to the MAC--that is off the table--for Many reasons that I'm sure most here don't have the time to read about.

Illinois St. IS a possible candidate. They are one of a handful on the list for the MAC's #14 school. They just check too many boxes not to be considered.

A lot of discussion here including Illinois State.
https://csnbbs.com/thread-970449-page-26.html

I agree that the MVC may wait a while till they know for sure from the folks in Normal. JMHO--but going past twelve would be a mistake.

I wouldn't want to go to the C-USA if you paid me and I don't really care for the MAC or FBS in general.

I have seen that thread before. Lots of speculation and there's no rush by any conference.