Conference Realignment - May 1

[TylerDurden]

Nebraska left for television revenue and academic association. Don't be misguided by bar stool chatter.

Tyler, you are wrong, in fact the reasons you cited are exactly that, bar stool chatter. Nebraska was actually in favor of the money distribution in the Big 12, they were a winner in the money distribution. The fact of the matter is that Nebraska argued for equal distribution of money only as a distraction and to polarize themselves with the "have nots" against Texas.

Nebraska did not leave for academic association, they were close to the last school in Big 12 academically, they are clearly the bottom feeders in the B1G.

Nebraska was essentially forced out of the Big 12. Colorado left, that was okay, but the rumors were very credible that Texas and Oklahoma were bolting for the Pac. Mizzou all but announced that they were leaving for the Big 10, if any of these dominoes fell, Nebraska was doomed. Dan Beebe tried to force Nebraska's hand into staying in the Big 12 by forcing them to sign away their third tier rights for the next decade. At that point, Nebraska countered by saying that they would sign away their third tier rights if Texas would do the same. Beebe and Texas refused. At this point, Nebraska was between a rock and a hard place, they had no guarantee that Texas and Oklahoma would stay, noise from Missouri was getting very loud. Nebraska had no bargaining power in the Big 12 and if Texas, Oklahoma and Mizzou bolted, Nebraska was screwed, they did what they had to do.

So we agree, it was about the television revenue. It was about the money. It's always about the money. When people say it's not about the money, it's about the money. The entire Big 12 instability was about money. Nebraska saw an opportunity to get a better bottom line and took it. Frankly its so clear that I'm surprised this is even a point of debate.

Also, I'm not sure by what standard you guys are talking about Nebraska's academics. Are you talking US News rankings? Until last year they were a member of the Association of American Universities. They were members for more than 100 years. Those are the best research schools in the country. It doesn't get better than that. The Big Ten schools are all members. Only Iowa State, Kansas, Missouri, Texas and Texas A&M were members in the Big 12. Nebraska doesn't get into the Big 10 without it. University presidents care about this.

A school doesn't leave a league because its offices are in a certain city. It doesn't leave a league because the league championship game is in a certain city. It leaves for financial opportunities (primarily) and whatever the school president wants to do with academics/marketing the university. Sometimes those things go hand-in-hand and sometimes they don't and the money rules.

[MoValley John]

It wasn't about money, it was about Nebraska seeing the league crumbling around them, the possibility that they would be stuck in a conference with less clout than the WAC and a poorly conceived hardball tactic thrown out by Dan Beebe. Of the schools that left, Nebraska was the last that looked anywhere else. Texas, along with aTm, Oklahoma and a few others were actively shopping the PAC, Colorado had already left for the PAC. Mizzou was telling anyone that would listen that they were going to the B1G. There have been some overtones that Colorado was admitted into the PAC to lessen Texas' bargaining power as to keep out Baylor. In fact, when Colorado joined, suddenly Texas couldn't bring all the Texas schools with them and when Utah was admitted, it quickly whittled down to four, Texas, aTm, Oklahoma and Okie State.

With all of the jockeying, somehow, Nebraska was placed in the middle of the melee, blamed for the instability, forced to sign away their rights- or leave. At that point, I guess you could say it was about the money, but it was more about protecting the brand and accepting the fact that had they stayed, they would have zero power in the future, if in fact, the Big 12 had a future. As for the money, Nebraska actually sacrificed lots money to get out. They paid the Big 12 $9.5 million to leave, plus they don't receive an even split of B1G money for several more years. They currently get less each in the B1G then had they stayed and received their share of Big 12 money, even before the Big 12 renegotiated. Monetarily, had Nebraska stayed in the Big 12, they would be millions of dollars ahead right now. So, you can say it was all about the money, but Nebraska actually gave up a bunch of money to get out. They were a scapegoat, they were getting pressured and blamed and knew that their opinion would never again matter in that conference.

Nebraska left for many more reasons, but money and academics were probably at the bottom half of the list. Nebraska was an AAU member, but that membership had been in question for many years prior to when they were booted. To be fair, Nebraska is improving their academic reputation, they are raising standards, but today, as an employer, I would take a UNO degree over a Nebraska degree almost everyday.

[pafan]

In actual news today, the A10 has announced that Butler and VCU will be members for the 2012-2013 academic year. This after the Horizon League and the CAA informed the pair that they would not be permitted to compete for conference titles in what was scheduled to be their final year in their old leagues.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketb ... set-season

[gtmoBlue]

I don't know that making the NCAA tournament should be the primary factor. Obviously we would want someone with a strong basketball program that won't be a boat anchor... But isn't most of this conference reshuffling about branding? I think adding a school that is easily recognized and well respected is probably more important --- obviously that often comes with making the NCAA tournament, but not always. That said, I continue to be in the "wait and see" camp.

If the Commish and the League continue with their version of the "wait and see how things shake out", the MVC will find itself next to the C-USA and MWC...on the trash heap.

A couple of MVC schools have fiscal issues and major fiscal concerns, their sports programs may be cut or eliminated. Rumor had it that the Aces were thinking about leaving. The Shockers and Co. will probably leave at their earliest convenience. It doesn't take much to get the ball rolling downhill. The CAA thought they were going to be fine...first 1 announces leaving, then 2. When the dust cleared they lost 4 teams over the next 2 years.

The MVC got lucky with the 'standing pat' move up til now. The sad part is the realignment domino game isn't over yet, this is just a pit stop. Dreaming about picking up 1 or 2 A-10 teams is a pipe dream, as they believe they are a Major conference now.

The pool of available NCAA tourney participants? Wow. A more realistic reach is for the best available recognisable 'non-BCS' teams: Tulsa, Wisc-Milw, New Mex St, Loyola-Chi, ORU, CSU, Wyoming, etc. A Chicago area school (Whether a Pro sports town - or not. Whether strongly followed - or not) gives the Valley potential access to that large viewership market and a bargaining chip in upgrading media contracts up the road.

Now is not the time for Elgin to Rest on his laurels or his haunches... He needs to boldly act.

[Haha]

The pool of available NCAA tourney participants? Wow. A more realistic reach is for the best available recognisable 'non-BCS' teams: Tulsa, Wisc-Milw, New Mex St, Loyola-Chi, ORU, CSU, Wyoming, etc. A Chicago area school (Whether a Pro sports town - or not. Whether strongly followed - or not) gives the Valley potential access to that large viewership market and a bargaining chip in upgrading media contracts up the road.

Now is not the time for Elgin to Rest on his laurels or his haunches... He needs to boldly act.

Tulsa, Wyoming, NMSU play big boy football

The rest is total garbage outside ORU but I don't think they would help as they would be a middle of the road team in the Valley.

The A-10 added Butler and VCU, and you suggest the Valley counter with garbage? If there was quality to add thats one thing but there isn't. Unless the Valley got bold and went way east or west and split into divisions. Otherwise the pool of possible additions in the midwest that don't play football is ever so weak.

[jwa123]

The pool of available NCAA tourney participants? Wow. A more realistic reach is for the best available recognisable 'non-BCS' teams: Tulsa, Wisc-Milw, New Mex St, Loyola-Chi, ORU, CSU, Wyoming, etc. A Chicago area school (Whether a Pro sports town - or not. Whether strongly followed - or not) gives the Valley potential access to that large viewership market and a bargaining chip in upgrading media contracts up the road.

Now is not the time for Elgin to Rest on his laurels or his haunches... He needs to boldly act.

Tulsa, Wyoming, NMSU play big boy football

The rest is total garbage outside ORU but I don't think they would help as they would be a middle of the road team in the Valley.


The A-10 added Butler and VCU, and you suggest the Valley counter with garbage? If there was quality to add thats one thing but there isn't. Unless the Valley got bold and went way east or west and split into divisions. Otherwise the pool of possible additions in the midwest that don't play football is ever so weak.

PRECISELY!

As I was attempting to do the other day and failed at, is that it is unreasonable to think Tulsa is going to leave an established FBS football conference to join a basketball league, even a good one like The Valley. Do we think we can entice them with FCS football in the MVFC? Football is Tulsa' money maker more than bbal. I also concur with your last paragraph which also brings a smile to my face when folks start rattling their sabres and say their school is going to leave The Valley asap. Where to I would ask?

[TheAsianSensation]

People who think Tulsa would listen for one second to us are nuts. They will protect their seat at the FBS and not move other sports elsewhere, final, done. No school with FBS is coming here, with the possible exception of New Mexico St and Idaho, because the WAC is such a disaster right now.

This is a trap of the current environment in the game. I'm not sure Elgin could've done much. Now, hear me out: you can tier D-I into the following:

Big Boys (the big 6 conferences)
---
A-10 and MWC (upper-majors in big markets)
---
high quality mid majors (WCC, CAA, MVC, highlight this group. A tier below because of markets and exposure, which do matter)
---
decent mid major conferences (Horizon, for example)
---
bad mid majors
---
SWAC

In expansion, you almost always take a school in a tier below you, or in the same tier as you of course. Now let's look at the A-10 and Butler. Butler leaps two tiers in this example. The A-10 and like conferences can add schools multiple tiers down.

And there's the problem for the Valley. The teams in the below tiers can move up to the Valley....but those teams can ALSO move up to a tier beyond the Valley. So why would any team go to the Valley when they could go above the Valley?

In other words, the MVC isn't a destination conference. The A-10 is. The Big 6 are. CUSA/MWC/merger/whatever it is is a destination conference. Does the Valley have "destination conference" cachet? Nope.

And you can blame that on whatever you'd like. I personally blame it on being a 1-bid league for 3-4 straight years. And to think, only if Jank had scheduled reasonably, we'd be a 2 bid league all those years and have a chance at being a destination conference.

(damn straight I'm going to blame ISU for the complete downfall and destruction of the entire league )

[Haha]

Will a Valley split ever happen?

football and non football

[Haha]

There is no doubt DBU has a nice baseball program, but they still don't fit as an affiliate member. They aren't a full DI athletics program. They aren't playing with the same rules as the rest of the MVC or WAC for that matter. They specialize in baseball and don't have to worry about fielding a DI team in any other sport. That's a huge competitive advantage, especially when you consider their warm-weather location against the MVC cities.

Wow what a YMCA view this is. I'm shocked you don't think the Valley should make everybody spend the same amount of money on all sports in the name of fairness. So instead of grabbing a very quality program that lifts the league you want to say no because they are too good at the sport? Please help me understand this statement any other way?

On top of that your argument is just being silly, it's baseball. It's only 11.7 scholarships, DBU still plays DII in other sports. Not as many but still need to supply scholarships for those teams. Their league doesn't get NCAA tourney money, t.v. money, and large crowds to help offset the cost.

Valley could have bettered themselves and some schools chose not to, it's that simple. I originally thought it was because schools were too cheap to travel to Dallas with 1 team once every two years. Now I find out it's because they don't want better competition? At least thats what your saying.

So you are for Football and Non Football splitting? Since having Football gives the Non Football the ability to focus their efforts on basketball?

[DoubleJayAlum]

People who think Tulsa would listen for one second to us are nuts. They will protect their seat at the FBS and not move other sports elsewhere, final, done.

We've been trying to tell gtmo this on the Creighton board for months, but he either can't comprehend it or is just ignoring it.

This is a trap of the current environment in the game. I'm not sure Elgin could've done much. Now, hear me out: you can tier D-I into the following:

Big Boys (the big 6 conferences)
---
A-10 and MWC (upper-majors in big markets)
---
high quality mid majors (WCC, CAA, MVC, highlight this group. A tier below because of markets and exposure, which do matter)
---
decent mid major conferences (Horizon, for example)
---
bad mid majors
---
SWAC

In expansion, you almost always take a school in a tier below you, or in the same tier as you of course. Now let's look at the A-10 and Butler. Butler leaps two tiers in this example. The A-10 and like conferences can add schools multiple tiers down.

And there's the problem for the Valley. The teams in the below tiers can move up to the Valley....but those teams can ALSO move up to a tier beyond the Valley. So why would any team go to the Valley when they could go above the Valley?

In other words, the MVC isn't a destination conference. The A-10 is. The Big 6 are. CUSA/MWC/merger/whatever it is is a destination conference. Does the Valley have "destination conference" cachet? Nope.

The frustrating thing is that the A10 really only became a destination conference in the last 60 days, when Butler and VCU jumped there (although it is probably important to point out that one of its most successful programs, Temple, is now gone). Despite being located in many big cities, their TV contract is abysmal (I read an article the other day when it indicates that each team gets about $70K from the deal and not every team is guaranteed a TV appearance). What the A10 has done is established themselves as the premier conference that doesn't have football, thereby having natural appeal to schools that value basketball, have no football programs and worry about where they may end up because they don't have football. That has a strong appeal to the WSUs, Creightons and Bradleys of the world.

The fact that the A10 has outflanked the MVC, considering where we both were in 2006, is pretty damn frustrating. The single bids from 2008-2011, resulting from very mediocre basketball during that period, really killed this conference's perception and financial situation. Sadly, we will all feel the financial effects from a lack of NCAA tourney units for years to come.

The A10 conference is solid right now, but long term stability is still in question. If the Big East bball schools separate from the FB schools, the A10 could lose its best program in Xavier, plus schools like SLU and Dayton.

With Butler's departure, I suspect every Horizon league team would look seriously at an MVC offer for membership. Whether any of those has much appeal though is the real question. The only one close would be Milwaukee, and most of its appeal comes from the chance at getting a better TV market plus the fertile recruiting area. In hindsight, we could probably fairly say that the MVC dropped the ball the last few times it added teams in that we traded major to good sized market teams for small to really small market teams each time. This has, no doubt, impacted the MVC's ability to get better TV deals. Perhaps this is having an impact on the MVC's approach to adding teams this time around?