Wichita State at VCU - ESPNU 6pm

[Shockerfan13]

Nice win for the Shockers on the road and the Valley. Tough game to watch, pretty ugly, first one to 50 wins!

Time will tell if this was a quality win or not.

The time is 1:12 in my world...trust me, it's a quality win.

I'm not trying to diminish the win. VCU is supposed to be pretty good. They didn't look like it last night so the question I have is whether that was because of what WSU did or because VCU was overrated.

I agree with ya. It's so early it's hard to really know what any win or loss will do until more of the season shakes out. I think VCU is probably a LITTLE overrated. I do think they will at least be relevant the whole year and should stay in at LEAST the top 100 rpi. So it will probably be a good win no matter what. I am HOPING it can be a top 50 rpi win, but time will tell on that. This win doesn't mean anything if the Shox lose their next one. I, for one, am just encouraged by the intensity and composure the team had in a hostile environment this early in the season. I didn't think they would be ready for it, but I was wrong. I hope that means the team has a toughness and confidence about them that along of "young" teams usually lack. Again, time will tell on everything. The season is a long one, anything can happen. This one just took a lot of people by surprise.

[Shockerfan13]

That game was very reminiscent of SIU of old.

So, after years of WSU fans making fun of Ugly Ball, Marshall has now adopted it?

I hope not. I seriously doubt it also. I think he is just emphasizing defense because he knows the offense is behind due to all the newcomers. His offense is pretty difficult to learn from what I hear because he has soooo many plays and I believe he puts in several plays at a time with trust that the PG will run the team and everyone will do what they are suppose to. Something like that anyway, I can't remember everything that has been said about his system. Perhaps someone else with better memory can correct me if needed.

Also, with the length and athleticism I feel that Marshall counts defense as a big advantage depending on matchups. In the end though he still wants to run and score as many easy baskets as possible. He still EXPECTS everyone to play defense like their hair is on fire though.

I realize you were probably just poking fun at us Shocker fan's, but I felt like answering the question anyway.

[shoxrox]

That game was very reminiscent of SIU of old.

So, after years of WSU fans making fun of Ugly Ball, Marshall has now adopted it?

That was the only way WSU had a chance of winning the game, muddying it up against a team that plays ugly and with "havoc". Marshall, the good coach that he is, will adjust according to each game on a game by game basis. It has been said that Marshall would like to run as much as possible, even with this year's team. Marshall made a great move and decided to give VCU a taste of their own medicine, which obviously they didn't like very well.

I think after 6 years of Marshall being in the conference you know the type of style he has and has tried to implement. Making a statement like that in 1 game is a bit of an oversight, dont you think?

[Khan4Cats]

I'm not trying to diminish the win. VCU is supposed to be pretty good. They didn't look like it last night so the question I have is whether that was because of what WSU did or because VCU was overrated.

I agree with ya. It's so early it's hard to really know what any win or loss will do until more of the season shakes out. I think VCU is probably a LITTLE overrated. I do think they will at least be relevant the whole year and should stay in at LEAST the top 100 rpi. So it will probably be a good win no matter what. I am HOPING it can be a top 50 rpi win, but time will tell on that. This win doesn't mean anything if the Shox lose their next one. I, for one, am just encouraged by the intensity and composure the team had in a hostile environment this early in the season. I didn't think they would be ready for it, but I was wrong. I hope that means the team has a toughness and confidence about them that along of "young" teams usually lack. Again, time will tell on everything. The season is a long one, anything can happen. This one just took a lot of people by surprise.

I agree with this. A big question will be the severity of the injury to the VCU player towards the end of the game. If he really is their best 3-pt/FT shooter, it may have a huge impact on their season if he is out for a while. They still have a challenging non-conference schedule with the Battle 4 Atlantis tourney (start off with Memphis then get Minnesota or Duke-opposite bracket from UNI), Old Dominion, Alabama, and Lehigh. In the A-10, they get Dayton, St. Joe's, UMass and Butler at home for one-offs but go on the road for Xavier and St. Louis with only Richmond as a home and home in conference so it seems somewhat favorable for them to have a good season. Though they didn't look great last night, they have seemed to be a team that picks it up towards the end of the season the last couple of years.

[shoxrox]

Also to add, defense is way ahead of the offense so far this year. When you have to replace your top 5 scorers from a year ago, I think it's perfectly understandable to expect the defense would be ahead of the offense, especially with the players involved - a lot of them known more for their defensive capabilities than their offensive ones. In the end, it got WSU the W and that's all that matters. It also doesn't help to play a team as tenacious as VCU is on the defensive end. That tends to ugly things up a bit. I wouldn't expect too many more 53-51 games in the future, unless WSU is playing a VCU-type team.

[valleychamp]

If I were a VCU fan I'd be a little worried. They were supposed to be the young up-and-comers last year, and they turned out to be pretty good. This year, they were supposed to be significantly better. Obviously WSU isn't an early season cupcake, but that was a game that I'm sure they thought they were going to win. Plus, they will be playing in a much, much tougher conference this year.

As far as WSU, I thought they looked pretty good. To win that game on the road this early in the season with all the new guys they have is a big achievement. After watching last night, I think it will be absolutely huge for them to have a Sr PG in Armstead this year. I'm not a fan of picking up a player for 1 year of eligibility but its going to work out great for WSU as they can have an experienced veteran lead the team for a year before Vanvleet takes over next season. I thought Early looked pretty raw/wild, but lots of potential. Hall was great, exactly what you expect out of him. And I thought Baker looked pretty good too, for a freshman at least, good size and confident looking shot.

[Heinro]

Great and unexpected win last night. Our composure and toughness was very encouraging; I thought after their 9-0 run to start the 2nd half it'd turn into a blow out. Our defense was huge and should continue to be all year. I'm honestly expecting lots of "ugly dog" basketball this year, specially against good teams. We're quick and athletic but lets face it, I think we only have 2 true shooters. I think offensively the loss of Burgess really hurt VCU last night, I'm interested to see what they do against Memphis next week. Either way, the Shocks got a great win and great experience last night.

:Valley:
:Shockers:

[DoubleJayAlum]

I think after 6 years of Marshall being in the conference you know the type of style he has and has tried to implement. Making a statement like that in 1 game is a bit of an oversight, dont you think?

Obviously, I don't remember all of WSU's games under Marshall, but the method in which the team played last night doesn't resemble WSu's offenses in any other games I remember. I tend to agree with Heinro (excellent analysis by the way) that WSU doesn't look to have a lot of shooters other than Justin Bieber. Armstead is a steady hand and great defensively, but not a big shooter. Early's outside shot is pretty suspect, although he scored well in the paint and at the FT line. I think Marshall may have to play Ugly Ball all year because of this lack of shooters.

Don't get me wrong - SIU and UNI have had success running that style and one can certainly be successful running it. I just thought it was amusing that for all of the complaining that certain WSU posters have done over the years about SIU and more recently, UNi and Evansville, Marshall may now be implementing the same style.

[CBB_Fan]

I think after 6 years of Marshall being in the conference you know the type of style he has and has tried to implement. Making a statement like that in 1 game is a bit of an oversight, dont you think?

Obviously, I don't remember all of WSU's games under Marshall, but the method in which the team played last night doesn't resemble WSu's offenses in any other games I remember. I tend to agree with Heinro (excellent analysis by the way) that WSU doesn't look to have a lot of shooters other than Justin Bieber. Armstead is a steady hand and great defensively, but not a big shooter. Early's outside shot is pretty suspect, although he scored well in the paint and at the FT line. I think Marshall may have to play Ugly Ball all year because of this lack of shooters.

Don't get me wrong - SIU and UNI have had success running that style and one can certainly be successful running it. I just thought it was amusing that for all of the complaining that certain WSU posters have done over the years about SIU and more recently, UNi and Evansville, Marshall may now be implementing the same style.

This Wichita State team, unlike a lot of other Marshall coached teams in the past, is still trying to find its identity. I don't know if how they played against VCU is what they "are" or if it represents what they had to be to win the game.

In reality, I know one thing about this team's identity at this point in the season: they can be a solid defensive team, especially in the paint. They have gotten 7 blocks in each of their first two games, and that number could easily be much higher.

As far as shooters go, it really will depend on a couple things:

1. Can Armstead regain some of his 3PT shooting from Chipola? He shot 52% in his time there. 35% would be a godsend for Wichita State right now.

2. Will Early's shot start to fall? He is certainly willing to shoot from distance, but so far hasn't been a shooter. His last year in JuCo, he was a 37% shooter. If he can do that at Wichita State, it would be huge.

3. Can at least one of the following step up as a shooter: Cotton, Wessel, White, FVV?

If the Shockers can get all 3 of those to happen, they are golden. They will have what they need to score and they'll be able to play good enough defense to win games.

[shoxrox]

Obviously, I don't remember all of WSU's games under Marshall, but the method in which the team played last night doesn't resemble WSu's offenses in any other games I remember. I tend to agree with Heinro (excellent analysis by the way) that WSU doesn't look to have a lot of shooters other than Justin Bieber. Armstead is a steady hand and great defensively, but not a big shooter. Early's outside shot is pretty suspect, although he scored well in the paint and at the FT line. I think Marshall may have to play Ugly Ball all year because of this lack of shooters.

Don't get me wrong - SIU and UNI have had success running that style and one can certainly be successful running it. I just thought it was amusing that for all of the complaining that certain WSU posters have done over the years about SIU and more recently, UNi and Evansville, Marshall may now be implementing the same style.

It's 1 game, young grasshopper. 1 game. I wouldn't base the entire season on 1 game on the road against a team that is defense first. Also, again you have to consider the youth and inexperience of WSU. I certainly didn't expect them to shoot 50% and drop 80 points on VCU. Maybe you did, which I would appreciate your optimism. Its 1 game just like we WSU fans shouldn't automatically assume we're locks for the Valley title. I think you should take up your issue with those 1 or 2 WSU fans that made those comments about "Ugly Ball", rather than paint the WSU fanbase with broad strokes.