Catholic Basketball League

[pafan]

this potentially leaves the Valley in great shape, as Butler and SLU might available then, and Creighton and WSU are not going to want to bolt for a league whose membership is limited to the crap in the A-10. Anyone else see this as a sort of possibility?

Yes, I do think it is possible.

In fact, I don't think anything is impossible if (and likely when) the Big East splits. If that happens, they will not stay with 7 teams, but I also don't think the Big East 7 plus the A10 14 is a reasonable conference.

The likely scenario in my mind is that the Big East 7 will go to 10. They will take three from the A10, whoever they can get. The only scenarios where CU gets drafted are for 12 or more teams.

[CBB_Fan]

A article from the Gonzaga perspective and his theoretical conference:

East:
Villanova
Providence
Georgetown
St. John's
Seton Hall
Xavier
Depaul

West:
Gonzaga
BYU
Creighton
St. Mary's
Butler
Marquette
St. Louis

http://www.slipperstillfits.com/2012/12 ... th-the-wcc

That is a reasonable extrapolation if the Catholic league explored the route of western expansion. The benefit is that the main group of defectors can still mostly play each other, don't have to worry about RPI drags, and get extra money from the Western conference.

However, I think the conference will end up with either 12 or 16 teams. I think they would start with that basic group (with maybe one or two minor changes), and then look to potentially add two more teams. Those teams would have to make some type of sense though, and would be teams with high quality programs in fairly large (and unrepresented) media markets without the threat of football.

That conference, as laid out, is actually favorable to Wichita State, because they would be an intermediate between the west coast teams and the teams closer to the Midwest. The other reasonable schools for expansion:

Richmond (East)
Dayton (probably West)
VCU (East)
Memphis (East or West, but less likely because of FBS football)
UMass (another Eastern team with the football problem)
SMU (West, but Football)
Any of UNLV, Boise State, SDSU, and maybe Hawaii

Less likely, but probably a route that the Big 7 would try and explore, would be to entice super basketball schools with mediocre FBS football teams to join. They would recruit Duke very hard, but the chances of anything happening are slim as long as the ACC still lives.

Also, don't discount that they may try and keep some type of football. The strongest members of the Catholic 7 (notably Georgetown) would actually prefer it for the extra revenue, even if they don't play football themselves. The scenario in this case would be to add UNLV, New Mexico, SDSU, Hawaii, BYU, SMU, UConn, Cincinnati, and others as all-sports members, keeping a large portion of the current Big East intact while keeping the football revenue stream.

[shoxrox]

I think the question a few people are asking is long-term... what happens with that many solid basketball institutions in the same conference? Do they all beat up on each other? Do a few of the once stellar schools get pushed to the bottom? I mean what happens in the West Division proposed by the Gonzaga fan. Who finishes 4-16? St. Louis? Then what about 7-13? BYU? Marquette? Creighton? Or are their 7 teams that finish between 8-12 and 12-8? What does that then say about the league?

The question becomes why would a Gonzaga move when nothing is broken? They've dominated the WCC and have managed to stay afloat and relevant in the college basketball landscape. Creighton has stayed in the top half of the Valley for a while now. They've made their NCAA appearances. Butler with the Horizon... etc. Is money really that much of factor in the basketball landscape, as it is in the football landscape? At what expense down the road is money worth it to join a perceived "super conference"? Do you think DePaul has liked how their program has deflated since it joined the Big East? A pecking order may form where some schools take a dip in such a competitive league. Or I guess it could all be cyclical also. But is that a chance a school should be willing to take? Domination over a so-so to good league (the Valley being good) vs. a possible chance to take a fall from grace?

Mathematics and the law of averages say 7 really strong basketball programs can't all be 18-2 in the league and receive at-large bids.

[CBB_Fan]

I think the question a few people are asking is long-term... what happens with that many solid basketball institutions in the same conference? Do they all beat up on each other? Do a few of the once stellar schools get pushed to the bottom? I mean what happens in the West Division proposed by the Gonzaga fan. Who finishes 4-16? St. Louis? Then what about 7-13? BYU? Marquette? Creighton? Or are their 7 teams that finish between 8-12 and 12-8? What does that then say about the league?

The question becomes why would a Gonzaga move when nothing is broken? They've dominated the WCC and have managed to stay afloat and relevant in the college basketball landscape. Creighton has stayed in the top half of the Valley for a while now. They've made their NCAA appearances. Butler with the Horizon... etc. Is money really that much of factor in the basketball landscape, as it is in the football landscape? At what expense down the road is money worth it to join a perceived "super conference"? Do you think DePaul has liked how their program has deflated since it joined the Big East? A pecking order may form where some schools take a dip in such a competitive league. Or I guess it could all be cyclical also. But is that a chance a school should be willing to take? Domination over a so-so to good league (the Valley being good) vs. a possible chance to take a fall from grace?

Mathematics and the law of averages say 7 really strong basketball programs can't all be 18-2 in the league and receive at-large bids.

This is one of the reason why I think a bigger conference (16+) teams is actually a blessing. Look at SEC football. They are big enough that they can have 3-4 teams every year that lose only a single game (and that game is to the other top teams), and that lets the entire conference get inflated.

Now, in basketball it is almost impossible to have the same situation because of the number of teams involved. Realistically speaking, the average length of conference play is 18-20 games, so it would take a basketball conference composed of roughly 30 teams to equal what the SEC does in football.

However, a 16-team conference has the advantage of splitting into two 8 team divisions. That would account for 14 games in your division ( vs and @ the other 7 teams in your division), plus playing half of the other league. This is what allowing the Big East to consistently get large numbers of teams into the tournament.

The benefit is that you DON'T have to go 18-2 in conference to get a bid; that is mid-major conference talk. Instead, you get a large number of marquee games in a season and can potentially get into the tournament with a .500 conference record.

The other advantage of a large conference full of power members is that the nature of the conference is cyclical. Potentially, a team could become like DePaul (once a nationally recognized team, now in a dark age) by continuing to lose to the rest of the conference, but programs would also have far more chance of making a tournament and/or returning to glory. Look at the Big East tournament; 11 teams have won the thing in the last 20 years, whereas the Big 12 has only had 2 winners in the last 6-7 years.

It comes down to money, media markets, money, recruiting, money, national brand, money, and tournament bids. This type of league would allow strong mid-major programs to take the next step (and potentially contend for titles), and even if they fail they will get to cash in. Imagine getting the top recruits from Chicago and New York to consider your school, getting paid millions more than staying in a mid-major conference, and not having to worry about being perfect to get into the dance. That is the allure of the major conference.

[LMS]

Expect the unexpected.

[Aargh]

Something that just occured to me while looking at the the A-10 membership

There is A LOT of crap in the A-10. The top is VERY GOOD, but the rest of the conference? Not so much. So what I'm thinking is, what if the Big East Bball schools split off, then invite the top of the A-10. Xavier, Dayton, VCU, Ect. This is also predicated on the fact that the new Big East follows the money and does not form a Catholic League (something I find very likely)

this potentially leaves the Valley in great shape, as Butler and SLU might available then, and Creighton and WSU are not going to want to bolt for a league whose membership is limited to the crap in the A-10. Anyone else see this as a sort of possibility?

This strikes me as the most logical outcome.

[DoubleJayAlum]

It is happening. From Twitter:

@McMurphyESPN: BIg East hoops schools expected to release statement on future plans in coming days. Source told @espn would be an "upset" if they remained

@ESPNAndyKatz: BE hoops schools expected to release statement on future plans in 24-48 hours." our story will be up soon.

Buckle up - things are going to get rocky real soon.

[LMS]

The silence is deafening......

[C0|db|00ded]

You know some of the comments coming from the Catholic schools regarding the admittance of new members sounds extremely snobbish to me. It's exactly the opposite of what you would expect from a religious school whose main precepts are humility and charity.....


T


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[LMS]

Just wait. Just wait.