Tues 1/8 games

[WhiskeySierraUniform]

Better or best, semantics...
I will add this, the arena "factor" is so overrated. Duke hardly plays in one of the nicer arenas, nor does Kansas.

That is not a valid comparison. Those schools have something else that creates allure and that is a tradition and history that only a handful of schools / arenas can claim. Not comparable in my opinion.

[MoValley John]

Better or best, semantics...
I will add this, the arena "factor" is so overrated. Duke hardly plays in one of the nicer arenas, nor does Kansas.

That is not a valid comparison. Those schools have something else that creates allure and that is a tradition and history that only a handful of schools / arenas can claim. Not comparable in my opinion.

But it is germane to the topic. Those schools built programs with commitments in resources, money and prioritizing them as the most important. The arena, good program, bad program or otherwise, is window dressing. Commitment to the program comes with funding the program every year, hiring the best coaches available and retaining them as long as you can. Providing training facilities and academic resources. Having a poster talk about JQH as an investment in the program is a joke when A. you don't even fill the place, and B. you don't do anything else to build your program. I don't want to drag this out but the cattle herd fiasco is still a legitimate discussion point and illustrates the frustration from others.

By the way, VCU, Mason and others play in relative dumps as well.

[TylerDurden]

Define "One of the best in the country."

JQH is a nice arena. Not great and not one of the best. It doesn't have locker rooms and a big plexiglass facade where an upper deck should be. Without a huge donation from JQH, MSU wouldn't even have the arena.

As far as operating budget, MSU may exceed only Evansville. The sanctimonious talk will continue.

I'm certainly not interested in being drawn into an MVJ gotcha, albeit very humorous, exchange...especially when the "quote" was amended from its original context and was about a subjective point of view.

The point is that MSU has, in fact, invested heavily in its program in recent years (as have most MVC programs) and the on-campus arena is the most visible representation of that fact.

The reality is that MVC programs will always have more financial limitations than Tennessee or Missouri or (insert most big six schools here), that includes Creighton, Wichita State and every other school without football money.

Those football money schools always have the capacity to pay head coaches and assistants more. They may choose not to, but they have the capacity. So lamenting Missouri State for not trying to match a $1.3 million offer to Cuonzo and citing that as an example of not investing in the program is silly. Could/should they pay more for a coach? Maybe. But they did recently win a regular season championship without doing so and have consistently been in the upper half of the league standings. I'd say MSU has generally received as good an ROI as any team in the league.

There is layer upon layer of complexity to this entire discussion, but in an arms race against folks with more resources, there always is a limit. Every school has to make decisions about what it invests and how. There is always a range of investment in any league and no league is exempted from schools that choose to invest fewer resources than others. I suppose that's my point. No matter what league you're in, there are those who won't invest as much - relatively speaking, of course.

As a group, MVC schools spend a very high percentage of their total athletic budgets on men's basketball.

If you take The Mid-Majority's Red Line numbers, MVC schools rank second (Horizon League) based on percentage of total budget spent on basketball (16.5 percent). They rank 11th in total spent (limitations, illustrated). The MVC schools are investing in their teams, but there's a limit.

One could argue that FCS football schools are the ones who really suffer as it relates to basketball investments (I would take that position), but that would take a lot more space.

[MoValley John]

Nobody says you have to match what the big boys pay, but in reality, MSU's track record is a joke. They never paid Barry, they hardly paid Cuonzo. Lusk isn't even at the top half of Valley coaches salaries.

Cuonzo might have stayed longer if he saw a potential for more money, he knows going to Tennessee is a big risk to his career. A risk that is easy to take given MSU's track record for paying coaches. Attempting to renegotiate Cuonzo's deal AFTER he visited Tennessee was two weeks two late. Cuonzo's deal needed to be inked before St. Louis. UNI was willing to up Jacobson when he won the regular season. Both parties waited until after the NCAA's. That said, Jacobson knew the deal was coming before anyone else came courting, Cuonzo didn't. This is a fundamental difference in how two athletic departments operate.

[Red]

I'm in a bit of shock at our start. Make that a lot of shock. We still have the players to make a run in St. Louis but the next couple of months are going to be filled with "waht ifs".

[TNMSUFAN]

Nobody says you have to match what the big boys pay, but in reality, MSU's track record is a joke. They never paid Barry, they hardly paid Cuonzo. Lusk isn't even at the top half of Valley coaches salaries

Zo was leaving as soon as he saw you could win the Valley and not get an NCAA at-large bid...didn't matter if we paid him a million dollars he would have taken 1,000,001 to coach at Tennessee

Also, our track record might be a joke but somehow we have finished in the top 4 14 out of our 22 season in the Valley...I would put that number up against anyone in the league not named Creighton

[valleyclimber]

IMHO it looks like ISU-R would have to go on a pretty major run just to be considered at best a team that the NIT would now take a look at. They barely made the NIT cut line last year, and let's face it the way that team is playing right now...do most posters think they are an NIT quality team? NO WAY IN HELL!

Looks like the ISU-R team was vastly over-rated, and they may be forturnate to match that 9-9 mark they earned in The Valley last year. The Redbirds would have to go 9-5 the rest of the way. That team is looking like a Thursday night play-in team, so it's probably not going to happen, but that does leave the door wide open for some up MVC teams to jump and a snatch an NCAA or NIT spot.

ROCK IT MVC!!

[Kip Dynamite]

Define "One of the best in the country."

JQH is a nice arena. Not great and not one of the best. It doesn't have locker rooms and a big plexiglass facade where an upper deck should be. Without a huge donation from JQH, MSU wouldn't even have the arena.

As far as operating budget, MSU may exceed only Evansville. The sanctimonious talk will continue.

We have a million dollar locker room being built as we speak that will be as nice as most big time BCS schools and the money to build it didn't come from John Q. You have very little clue as to what you are talking about here.

We're also about to embark on a major rennovation to the football stadium and build a new track and soccer complex beginning fall of next year. We DO make the investment into our athletic programs.

[shoxrox]

Maybe he left because he couldn't get an at-large after he won the Valley at Missouri State.

[MoValley John]

Define "One of the best in the country."

JQH is a nice arena. Not great and not one of the best. It doesn't have locker rooms and a big plexiglass facade where an upper deck should be. Without a huge donation from JQH, MSU wouldn't even have the arena.

As far as operating budget, MSU may exceed only Evansville. The sanctimonious talk will continue.

We have a million dollar locker room being built as we speak that will be as nice as most big time BCS schools and the money to build it didn't come from John Q. You have very little clue as to what you are talking about here.

Except the fact that my original point was that arenas and locker rooms are window dressing. We all know what Lusk makes, we all knew what Cuonzo made, we all knew what Barry made. We know you had to sell a cattle herd to keep athletics afloat. We don't know, but has been speculated on this board and the various MSU boards regarding the Bears paltry recruiting budget.

Don't stop at a million. Build a $5mm locker room, it won't make a difference. In fact, a $5mm locker room is cheaper in the long run than funding what is important.