Lack of ISUr conversation

[rlh04d]

I know that I saw someone post on redbirdfan.net something to the effect of "I have heard from a credible source close to the football program that ISU is currently in serious talks with the MAC".

With all due respect, you appear to be new to conference realignment discussion in the FBS.

Everyone has a credible source that is close to the program that says X Y and Z. The amount of ridiculous rumors I've heard just in the last year about FBS realignment that has gotten serious traction is absurd.

As an FSU fan, I believe there were "credible sources" that had FSU going to literally every single BCS conference last year. I think I even heard someone saying FSU and Miami would go help resurrect the Big East. And the amount of "credible sources" swearing up and down that FSU was gone to the Big12 was so crazy that the university's Board of Directors and President were forced to refute them. People disguise wishful thinking and possibilities as being from "credible sources" to get more traction.

I think a lot of it is manufactured publicity, as well. I believe that in FSU's case, to flirt with the B12 in order to force the ACC to take on structural changes, and it wouldn't surprise me if IlSt wants to encourage such rumors to build fan support for the increase in stadium capacity. "Just fill up this stadium and we might make the move!"

[rlh04d]

Just thought I'd make a correction on the stadium capacity. http://www.goredbirds.com/hancockrenova ... -faqs.html

What will the capacity of Hancock Stadium be for the 2013 season?
Newly renovated Hancock Stadium's capacity will be approximately 15,000.

That's an important change for your FBS hopes, actually. Stadium size will be important for any potential move.

However, you'd still be the smallest stadium in the FBS. And with only two documented sell-outs last year (in your best season in as long as I was willing to look back), your ability to actually fill a 15k stadium is a very different matter. If you double the capacity but still only sell 7k tickets, you'd still be the second lowest average attendance in the FBS.

[rlh04d]

Without going back and checking your point about 6 wins I have no reason to doubt you. However, what is missing is not the average but the trend. Illinois State has continued to improve each year since Coach Brock arrived. Last year Illinois State went to the FCS playoffs and had some success. Now I know you will knock FCS football but so will many Illinois State fans but it is the base we are building on. This year's recruiting class for football is arguably the best Illinois State has ever had. Momentum is building at the FCS level and if it continues as is, Illinois State will be able to build a case for the next level at some point.

Then you will have to find someone else to hate.

I believe it's exactly 6 wins if you don't count postseason play. 6.2 if you count the one postseason win. All comes out in the wash. 3, 6, 6, 7, 8+1.

I think you're looking at this wrong. You appear to believe that winning in the FCS is what will take you to the FBS. And while they are related, of course, in that winning often builds a fanbase, and a fanbase actually is important, if FCS SUCCESS alone mattered FCS CHAMPIONS would be making the move. How many times has North Dakota, Appalachian State, etc. won the FCS championship and then ... stayed in the FCS? Why would Illinois State making incremental progress in on-field play make them more likely to move to an FBS conference than teams that are literally dominating the FCS?

I'm not dismissing your chances, I'm saying that you're disregarding the things that are actually important to FBS conferences and looking at it simplistically only in regards to on-field success. Appalachian State is not an FBS team, and you are not Appalachian State. Lot more factors involved in this situation than you're looking at. I listed several that will hold you back, whether you win 3 games next season or the championship. Literally, you could win the championship next year and not only would I not care but I'm not sure the MAC would either.

For the record, UMASS, the last team to join the MAC, committed to expanding their stadium to 25k capacity as part of the move. They're throwing $20-30million at it.

Why would I have to stop hating you just because you went to the FBS? (The sweet sounds of victim mentality.)

[isuredbirds92]

I was not commenting on the validity of the claims, just simply explaining that those are the rumors that are circulating, as you seemed to be confused as to where they were coming from. And while you are right, the 15,000 seat stadium would be the smallest in the FBS (if wikipedia is accurate). Regardless, would doubling the stadium's capacity not help? As someone stated earlier, the construction is such that you could easily add a horseshoe to one or both ends adding anywhere from (this is a very rough estimate) 2-8K seats. That's just a guess. But anyways every program has to start somewhere. And while you are probably right that most of this is wishful thinking, it does make a lot of sense for us to join the MAC specifically. We have larger enrollment then three of its current members. And without looking into too much detail about the areas surrounding these schools, I would say we have a pretty good sized metropolitan area for the conference if you include Peoria, Blo-No, and Chicago (if we're stretching it). If you look at it, the conference's teams are mostly in Ohio, and three are in Michigan. It would make for an interesting rivalry between NIU and ISU as well which would attract more viewers in the Chicago area which would be the largest market they would have access to. As you said, I am new to the conference realignment discussion, but to me it seems that we would fit in quite well with the rest of the conference. Again, probably biased wishful thinking, but it is my opinion nonetheless.

[agrinut]

I was not commenting on the validity of the claims, just simply explaining that those are the rumors that are circulating, as you seemed to be confused as to where they were coming from. And while you are right, the 15,000 seat stadium would be the smallest in the FBS (if wikipedia is accurate). Regardless, would doubling the stadium's capacity not help? As someone stated earlier, the construction is such that you could easily add a horseshoe to one or both ends adding anywhere from (this is a very rough estimate) 2-8K seats. That's just a guess. But anyways every program has to start somewhere. And while you are probably right that most of this is wishful thinking, it does make a lot of sense for us to join the MAC specifically. We have larger enrollment then three of its current members. And without looking into too much detail about the areas surrounding these schools, I would say we have a pretty good sized metropolitan area for the conference if you include Peoria, Blo-No, and Chicago (if we're stretching it). If you look at it, the conference's teams are mostly in Ohio, and three are in Michigan. It would make for an interesting rivalry between UNI and ISU as well which would attract more viewers in the Chicago area which would be the largest market they would have access to. As you said, I am new to the conference realignment discussion, but to me it seems that we would fit in quite well with the rest of the conference. Again, probably biased wishful thinking, but it is my opinion nonetheless.

I doubt UNI will go anywhere, In my experiences with their new president he is more likely to cut athletic spending then boost it. I am no saying he is going to cut athletic spending just that I don't see him adding to it.

[unipanther99]

I doubt UNI will go anywhere, In my experiences with their new president he is more likely to cut athletic spending then boost it. I am no saying he is going to cut athletic spending just that I don't see him adding to it.

Maybe I missed it, but what kind of experiences do you have with President Ruud?

[jwa123]

rlh04d,

I understand the validity of your question as to the sources and I won't even claim what I've read or heard has validity which is why I called it "chatter." I understand these sources that go something like my next door neighbor has a second cousin who has a half brother who knows the janitor at the dorm that is a half a mile from the building where the AD has his/her office. Nonetheless, there seems to be more chatter right now than in times past but then again that could be my perception. Who knows anything for sure until some official announcement is made.

I do know as a fact that Kent Benson, the Sunbelt commissioner, circulated an email to school presidents and ADs with a list of 11 potential members for that conference and both Missouri State and Illinois State was on that list. This is fact and not rumor. Then one could argue who would want to go to the Sunbelt and I certainly would not argue that point. This might even be more so with a departure of WKU which is "rumored" to be happening soon. While Missouri State is in the Sunbelt footprint Illinois State isn't. Maybe with UALR not having football they might be willing to take some school for football only.

I am also of the opinion that a very strong possibility exists that the Power 5 conferences will leave the NCAA to do their own thing with football. At that juncture it would not be unreasonable that there won't exist any difference between a strong FCS conference like the MVFC and one of the other FBS conferences like the MAC because of a restructuring at the now second level. In this situation why move?

Personally I am not beating the war drum for a conference move but I wouldn't be totally opposed either. The camp at Illinois State is mixed on this as well. Also, with the current President resigning I could see him letting who ever the next President is make that decision - if a decision is to be made.

Take care,

[rlh04d]

Regardless, would doubling the stadium's capacity not help?

I already said it absolutely would help.

I'm not poo-pooing the idea that you will ever go to the FBS ... but you're not going to make the move anytime soon, unless there's a variable I don't see. The stadium size is important, but I think you're going to need to upgrade to over 20k seats to make the move, the way UMass has just done (and UTSA, the other team that joined the FBS last year, plays in a 65k seat stadium).

You're making the right step in doubling the capacity of your stadium. You're just not there yet. The next step will be for you to average 12-13k students next season. Another increase in capacity will be needed before the move, and you'll need to show the ability to fill the stadium to get there. Capacity is important, but capacity is only really important in regards to how many you can get to a game. If you can't ever sell-out a game, there's no reason to increase capacity. You can have a 100k stadium, but if you're only selling 10k tickets, it doesn't do you any good. You were nearly averaging a sell-out before, so your capacity expansion makes sense. You'll need to average near this new capacity to encourage further expansion.

Look at UMass for indicators of when you'll be ready for the move to FBS, as a team that just moved from the FCS to the MAC. They had a 15k seat stadium and averaged 14k for five years prior to the move (http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2012/ ... story.html). They then committed to investing another $20-30 million to increase the capacity of the stadium further. While they've had problems since joining the MAC, those are goals you should be looking to meet for Illinois State to move. (They also play at the 70k seat Gillette Stadium sometimes, although I have no idea why they would do so when they can't fill their own stadium, unless it's just due to renovations).

Edit: This is a very interesting article, especially about how teams that move up to the FBS lose even more money after the move: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/30/sport ... d=all&_r=0

[isuredbirds92]

I doubt UNI will go anywhere, In my experiences with their new president he is more likely to cut athletic spending then boost it. I am no saying he is going to cut athletic spending just that I don't see him adding to it.[/quote]

Sorry, when I said UNI I meant NIU. I guess I'm dislexic. Anyways, I think that rivalry would be a good way for the MAC to increase it's impact in the Chicago area. You do make a good argument regarding stadium size though. What you say about UMass is probably about the same situation we're in. I'm definitely going to read those articles. Good insight from a clearly educated person on college football. I am more of a basketball guy myself, and as I mentioned I am still a student so I imagine I have a lot to learn about conference realignment. The one thing that I thing will always put a damper on school spirit here is the fact that, as I mentioned before, ISU is the second choice for a lot of students. Obviously, U of I will always be the best public school in the state and their athletics are very set being the B1G and all that. I just hope the excitement surrounding our athletic department continues to grow and sticks around for a long time.

[valleychamp]

We just lost the best quarterback in school history, and FCS history, but we have a stud QB transfer from Iowa St. He was the one that beat Ok St. while throwing for over 300 yards and I think 3 TDs last year while their starter was injured and from what I hear he is gonna make us a force to be reckoned with.

LMAO!!!