WSU next year

[rlh04d]

I think the Shox will be close to a consensus pick to win the Valley. They appear to be loaded. But will they win it? Its just not a given even with Marshall at the helm. With so many new faces CHEMISTRY is the big concern IMO.

They (WSU) obviously got past that hurdle last year but that hasn't always been the case. Several seasons ago (the years Dursley was there) I thought the shox were the deepest and most talented team in the Valley but team chemistry appeared to suck much of the time. Not picking on Dursley by the way just using him as a point of reference.

I 'll pick the Shox to win the Valley. But I don't think they'll run away with it. And I think we 'll see a surprise team in the top 3. Like ISUr or MSU.

I think that would be a fair point if true, but there are only two "new faces" on our two-deep at any position. Our backup PG (whichever of the two doesn't RS) and either Carter or Watson, whichever is #2 at the 4.

I really don't know how chemistry is supposed to be a major stumbling block when eight of our top 10 players were on the team last year.

Is there any team in the conference that doesn't have four new players coming in next year? WSU isn't exactly relying on them.

Certainly it remains to be seen how Coleby, Lufile, and Wiggins fit into the team in larger roles, but they were on the team last year. If they're the ones you're considering as "new faces," that is certainly a legitimate criticism. But, again, is there any team in the conference that doesn't have a situation where a few players that played sparingly last year are going to be stepping into the two deep?

[rlh04d]

Wichita State will have the first and second best teams in the Valley next year. You can save this quote.

No need, we hear it every year. Hopefully your team is up for all the hype. Last year they were considered over achievers, what happens when they have a target.

You hear it every year? When was the last time WSU was the conference favorite?

WSU was picked about fourth last season.

[rlh04d]

No need, we hear it every year. Hopefully your team is up for all the hype. Last year they were considered over achievers, what happens when they have a target.

Are they backing it up?

As long as we don't lose to Alabama A&M, I'll call our season a success.

Is that the same Bears team that was among the youngest in the country but was somehow pretty competitive with WSU (in one of your best years ever) 2 out of the 3 head to head games?

WSU has a few embarrassing losses in their past too. All teams do.

Losing by 10 is "pretty competitive" ? In three games we won by a combined 49 points. We have different opinions on what "competitive" means, apparently. I consider a double-digit loss to be outside of that category.

Interesting how far above their season averages guys like White and Wiggins played against you.

[rlh04d]

Nobody knocked the Shocks talent, just pointed out obvious areas that are yet unproven. Lufile averaged 1.6 ppg, Wiggins, 4.6, FVF 4.9, Wessel 5.3 . Baker for all his hype shot less than 40% from the field and less than 36% from three. None of those numbers shout obvious all MVC talent. Coleby as I noted had no better stats at Lou. Lafayette than Addo had Northern Colorado as a soph. Early is the only proven double figure scorer you have back and while he is probably the most talented player in the league, he did not show a penchant for liking to mix it up down low on the defensive end.

like I said, WSU easily deserves the nod for top team, but I don't see the gap as that big. As far as ISUb they were 9-9 and pretty inconsistent in the league. I think they have talent, but no more than 3-4 other teams. so I just can't see anointing them as sure fire second place finishers.

As far as losing to a SWAC team last year, that has as much relevance as WSU losing to UMKC a few seasons back. Lat year was last year, today there are just 10 teams all hoping to be able to challenge for a title, and until questions are answered on the court, teams can hype all they want, that's all it is.

This is the only logical and fair criticism of WSU going into next year that I can remember seeing in this thread.

As has been mentioned before, you can point out question marks regarding WSU and ISUb, but you have to ignore even bigger question marks regarding the other teams, or ignore how big the gap was between teams last year, to expect those two to not finish 1-2 in conference. WSU has question marks, there's no doubt about it; ISUb had flashes of brilliance and collapsed by the end. However, they have less question marks than the middle teams last year (UNI losing three of the top four scorers; Evansville losing Colt Ryan, who the entire offense was built around; ISUr losing everyone). Teams like MoSt, that might have less question marks, are clearly inferior in talent and it would be illogical to assume any teams that were in the 7-11 or worse range last year to be able to compete for the conference championship next year; none of them return enough talent, had enough talent in the first place, or bring in enough talent next year for that to be a logical assumption.

I don't think any WSU fans are going to say we don't have any question marks. We're simply pretty confident that our question marks are less than almost any other team, and the only teams with less question marks have significant ground to make up on us since last year.

[Wufan]

Good point. Also, I know that MSU is returning Gulley from two years ago. I left those types of additions out for simplicity, but it really must be considered when establishing pre-season rankings.

And with Gulley, that is a huge consideration. You're talking someone who was a Juco AA, came in and despite playing second fiddle to Weems , averaged 10 ppg, 6 rbs, shot 50% fg, 37% 3pts, and led the team in steals. He averaged 24 ppg his last year in juco. If healthy, and there's every reason to believe he will be 100%, he's a legitimate all Valley candidate. His year was not much different statistically from Early's 1st year other than a few down in PPG, but Early didn't have an offense centered around Weems like Jarmar did. I'm not saying he's as talented as Early, but I am saying he's one of the better talents in this league and will have a definite impact coming back. Given Kirk finished the year strong, we have 3 legitimate double figure scorers returning[ actually a 4th when you consider Addo averaged right at that as a sophmore at N.Colorado], 3 other players who have started multiple D-1 games, a really solid juco wing player in Mvoueka, some legitimate size this time around, a top 10 rated prep shooter in Ruder and a guy in Thomas who I think is gonna really shock people at how good he will be when it's all said and done. I don't see us finishing worse than 4th[ 12-6 would be about right] and think 2nd is well in reach. I respect other teams and know they will see their prospects very similar, but there's no one in the conference we can't match up with on the court talent or depth wise this year. I just don't know how good our staff is yet.

I disagree with much of this post, more so than some of your earlier posts which only hinted you felt this way rather than stating it.

Gulley will be very good. He was "off a few" from Early despite being on a team where the offense centered around Weems. Off a few means that he scored 40% less than Early despite playing the same mpg. Early only started 22 of 38 games and backed up Carl Hall. I'd hardly call him the center of the offense in Wichita. Meanwhile, you use Gulley as an example of an excellent player, but dismiss Carter, who was also an AA and a top 10 JUCO talent. I am not as dismissive of Carter…whom will be a back-up.

Why is it that K Coleby won't be good while Addo will help you immensely? Addo had a poor junior season. Why is it that Kirk came on really strong, but Baker got hot at the end? I think you are using emotion as a double standard when at the end of the day MSU didn't win any D-I non-con games last year. Had MSU been 12-6 last year, I'd be calling them for first this year. Bottom line is they were 7-11. Their 7-11 talent is a year older. They bring in some nice pieces. They will be improved from the Thursday night team they were a year ago. A two position jump isn't out of the question, and with Creighton gone that would put them in 4th. Best of luck to a young and talented Bears team!

[BEARZ77]

There must be a great need for remedial reading classes in Wichita, half of what some of you all piss and moan about is not found in any posts . Who said WSU isn't the clear favorite. Who said Coleby couldn't be good; I just said if you give Coleby credit for what he did, then you have to give it to Addo for similar previous performance. Where was Carter even mentioned, but if you want the difference between Carter and Gulley, it's pretty simple; how many points or rebounds has Carter gotten at the D-1 level compared to Gulley who already showed he can perform at that level. And if you want to believe that players like Marshall/Gulley/ Mvoueka, Thomas, Ruder, Thurman/ Kirk/ represent inferior talent, all power to ya. Contempt prior to investigation usually has a price.

If you want discussion then try to limit your rebuttal to things actually said ; I don't care if you agree or disagree with what I say, but it's stupid to debate your delusions about things never said. No one has said WSU won't be good, no one has said they aren't the favorites. But if you want to piss and moan about every comment about inexperience or replacement players needing to prove themselves, then like I said, have at it.

[rlh04d]

There must be a great need for remedial reading classes in Wichita, half of what some of you all piss and moan about is not found in any posts .

Classy meltdown, there.

I love your comments about how others need to "prove themselves" when nearly WSU's entire starting lineup last year was in the Final Four, and Missouri State's lineup couldn't win a single D1 nonconference game and went 1-8 against the top 5 teams in conference last year, losing by an average of nearly 14 points a game. That expands to 2-9 against the top 6, with an average loss over 16.

Or my favorite stat: One road win in conference play, against Drake. One. With your Bracket Busters win, you had two road wins the ENTIRE season.

Yes, I feel very confident in stating that MoSt has inferior talent. Because they haven't proven a thing. You'll be an improved team, but a garbage team improving still isn't good.

[agrinut]

No need, we hear it every year. Hopefully your team is up for all the hype. Last year they were considered over achievers, what happens when they have a target.

Are they backing it up?

As long as we don't lose to Alabama A&M, I'll call our season a success.

Your first team didn't win the league last year..... I would say the shockers haven't met that expectation yet. Remind me how Kangaroo balls taste again.

[rlh04d]

No need, we hear it every year. Hopefully your team is up for all the hype. Last year they were considered over achievers, what happens when they have a target.

Are they backing it up?

As long as we don't lose to Alabama A&M, I'll call our season a success.

Your first team didn't win the league last year..... I would say the shockers haven't met that expectation yet. Remind me how Kangaroo balls taste again.

Remind me how the Final Four tastes again.

I love hearing so much trash talking coming from fans of the single worst Valley team last year. I didn't think anyone could take that trophy off SIU; so, congrats?

[glm38]

Losing by 10 is "pretty competitive" ? In three games we won by a combined 49 points. We have different opinions on what "competitive" means, apparently. I consider a double-digit loss to be outside of that category.

Interesting how far above their season averages guys like White and Wiggins played against you.

I think both games would have been considered competitive by most people watching or at the games. Yes the final score in both was a ten point deficit. But both were closer than that going into the final few minutes. I remember after both games taking a look at Shockernet and there were a lot of nervous WSU fans and also some grudging admiration for the young Bears.

What does White and Lufile playing well in those games mean? Big deal. Thurman lit up Early in the game here too.