WSU next year

[rlh04d]

Since we're on the topic, I've got a question for MVC fans...
7 game series
16-2 vs. Final 4
Who ya got?

Healthy? The Final 4 team.

I think the starting lineup is better and the depth is better. Rags versus Armstead, Hall vs Stutz, Murry vs Early, Smith/Kyles vs Baker/Cotton ...

Rags/Armstead is the toughest one for me. Armstead's a better ball handler and definitely a better defender. Offensive ability is probably similar. Rags was more consistent, though, and less feast/famine at points during the season.

Depth wise, Hall as a backup over Orukpe is probably the only spot I think the 16-2 team clearly wins at.

I don't see a problem with your original post. However, I do think 17-1 to 15-3 are legitimate goals for WSU next season.

[valleychamp]

The 11-12 team was better. Don't let a 4 game win streak in March cloud your judgement and diminish an entire season.

[Redbird Recon]

Healthy?

Healthy.
Since I posed the question… I’d take 16-2 in 7.
I think that squad was a much more cerebral bunch.
I also think Stutz would have a lot of success and be the deciding factor.

[Wufan]

Healthy?

Healthy.
Since I posed the question… I’d take 16-2 in 7.
I think that squad was a much more cerebral bunch.
I also think Stutz would have a lot of success and be the deciding factor.

Well…according to extremely unreliable sources, Armstead and Baker were BOTH better than Ragland and Kyles in practice. Murry over Wessel/Cotton and I'll take Murry. Early over Smith. Stutz got the start over Hall at center, but that's a wash IMO.

I think the 11-12 Shocker team was a very good offensive team that learned to play defense. That said, Stutz and Ragland, the anchor and the point of the defense, were not good defenders and were soft. Hall and Armstead, OTOH were both very good defenders and played mean.

For this coming year, we will have to see if Early is willing to take on some contact.

[rlh04d]

Healthy?

Healthy.
Since I posed the question… I’d take 16-2 in 7.
I think that squad was a much more cerebral bunch.
I also think Stutz would have a lot of success and be the deciding factor.

When you're looking at last year's team as a healthy squad, I think the conference play full of injuries clouds everyone's judgement. The Final Four run still lacked Evan Wessel, who was a starter prior to the injury.

The FF team beat VCU, at VCU. The 16-2 team lost to VCU at a neutral site. VCU was likely better this last season. Prior to Wessel's injury, WSU was 9-0 in the nonconference with a early season tournament championship. Even after the injuries, WSU still got off to a 15-1 run, and then 19-2, flirting with the best start in WSU history for most of the season. The previous year's team got off to a 9-2 record, losing twice at a neutral site tournament.

Not the best comparison, because that says that the FF team clicked faster than the 16-2 team, but you can't compare the entire season when the 16-2 team was remarkably healthy and the FF team was hobbled for more than half the season.

Stutz would certainly have the size advantage, but I never thought he was that big of a force given the significant size advantage he enjoyed in the conference. His stats were better than Hall's (except blocks, strangely), but he had an extra four inches and was probably the tallest regular player in the conference at the time.

[rlh04d]

The 11-12 team was better. Don't let a 4 game win streak in March cloud your judgement and diminish an entire season.

Don't let a conference season riddled with injuries cloud your judgement and diminish the body of work that exists without such significant injuries.

We had a great team that year, but if that team lost two starters for over half the year, we would have been in significant trouble.

And calling a Final Four run a "4 game win streak in March" is absurd.

[Redbird Recon]

Stutz would certainly have the size advantage, but I never thought he was that big of a force given the significant size advantage he enjoyed in the conference. His stats were better than Hall's (except blocks, strangely), but he had an extra four inches and was probably the tallest regular player in the conference at the time.

Size is size. Stutz was great his senior year. Knocking his height is like discrediting Roy Hibbert for excelling against the undersized Heat.

One team lost 2 games in The Valley.
One team lost 2 games to Evansville.

[glm38]

Regarding Armstead vs Ragland I thought Ragland was better. Armstead was phenomenal in the tournament but he was really shaky at times during the season.

I thought Ragland was much more consistent and a real force on offense. Both good Valley guards though.

[rlh04d]

Stutz would certainly have the size advantage, but I never thought he was that big of a force given the significant size advantage he enjoyed in the conference. His stats were better than Hall's (except blocks, strangely), but he had an extra four inches and was probably the tallest regular player in the conference at the time.

Size is size. Stutz was great his senior year. Knocking his height is like discrediting Roy Hibbert for excelling against the undersized Heat.

One team lost 2 games in The Valley.
One team lost 2 games to Evansville.

One team lost in the first round of the NCAA tourney. One team went to the Final Four.

Again, you're comparing a healthy team to a team lacking multiple starters. Losing to Evansville doesn't say anything about the quality of a healthy Shocker team last year. The 16-2 team was unquestionably better than the team that played in conference last season. Because that team was missing multiple starters.

I'm not knocking his height. I'm saying that his stats should have been MUCH better given his size advantage and skill level. Or to put it another way: He's a very good player in Korea. He should have been an NBA draft pick, though.

[rlh04d]

Regarding Armstead vs Ragland I thought Ragland was better. Armstead was phenomenal in the tournament but he was really shaky at times during the season.

I thought Ragland was much more consistent and a real force on offense. Both good Valley guards though.

Rags was better on offense and most consistent. Armstead was one of the best defensive point guards in WSU history, though. I'd take Rags in a second on offense, and Armstead in a second on defense.

I think Armstead suffered a lot from trying to do more than he was capable of offensively when the injuries piled up.