Bryant Allen (ISUred) Dismissed

[Redbird Recon]

WSU may have had some new faces, but that's 4 seniors and 6 guys who probably would have finished second in the MVC without some of the new faces really shining.

Early (NOY & 1st Team) & Armstead (HM) were both newcomers. You're not an at-large team w/o them.
FVV and Baker were both crucial to success in The Big Dance. You're not in the Final 4 without them.
Celebrate. Your earned it. Just don't tell me you'd be celebrating without the newbies.

We saw what Muller did with a team that had a lot of returning talent and was the pre-season #3 pick in the Valley. The team tanked and just barely avoided Thursday night. Now Muller is going to try to take the 6th place team (that was considered to have a lot of talent), get rid of all the returning players except one Fr, and bring in a whole new team to compete in the Valley.

Jankovich took that same talent PLUS Nic Moore and also missed Thursday night by one game.
We're bringing back 3: Keane, Zeisloft and Jones. Kaza is playing for U19 Team Canada; nice squad.

Ultimately it boils down to this for me: Muller inherited a team with two stars, a few adequate role players, a lot of dead weight, and no sufficient PG. I watched every game Jank's last season. They were infuriatingly average except for a 2 week stretch in March. During that time they played out of their minds, shooting unconsciously from far beyond the NBA 3 point arc early in many shot-clocks. They couldn't miss, and a leader emerged: Nic Moore. That shooting streak never came back. Neither did Jank or Moore. Optimism rested on the shoulder's of another PG that never emerged. Hill played some nice games, but when the Shockers pressed him in St. Louis, he folded. So did the team. I'm looking forward to the fresh start.

[rlh04d]

No one said anything about the Redbirds making the Final 4 next year. Taking that comment out of context is nothing more than message board bullying. WSU made the Final 4 with plenty of new faces stepping up; an awesome accomplishment but definite surprise. The idea that ISU, with a team full of newcomers, could be average in a mostly unproven MVC is not that far fetched. It's improbable, sure, but not ridiculous.

How am I taking something out of context? I quoted his entire post. I didn't leave anything out.

He invited a comparison between IlSU this coming season and WSU going to the Final Four. He specifically said anything can happen.

You attempting to modify what he said to be about being average in conference next season is nothing more than revisionist history. There are a dozen comparisons that could be made for saying IlSU might be decent. When you start drawing comparisons to WSU's Final Four team, you're clearly saying the potential exists to be far more than "average."

[rlh04d]

Doubt this is very newsworthy, but I guess it's one more step towards Muller's complete turnover of the program: http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports. ... ing-staff/

[mvcfan]

No one said anything about the Redbirds making the Final 4 next year. Taking that comment out of context is nothing more than message board bullying. WSU made the Final 4 with plenty of new faces stepping up; an awesome accomplishment but definite surprise. The idea that ISU, with a team full of newcomers, could be average in a mostly unproven MVC is not that far fetched. It's improbable, sure, but not ridiculous.

How am I taking something out of context? I quoted his entire post. I didn't leave anything out.

He invited a comparison between IlSU this coming season and WSU going to the Final Four. He specifically said anything can happen.

You attempting to modify what he said to be about being average in conference next season is nothing more than revisionist history. There are a dozen comparisons that could be made for saying IlSU might be decent. When you start drawing comparisons to WSU's Final Four team, you're clearly saying the potential exists to be far more than "average."

This is what he meant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX5jNnDMfxA

[Wufan]

Allen was stopped at 3:12 a.m. Sunday at the intersection of School and Willow streets and booked into McLean County Jail at 3:41 a.m. He was charged with possession of marijuana and delivery, driving on a suspended license and disregarding a stop sign.

http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/colleg ... f887a.html

No spinning that. Head coach did what a head coach should do.

Some coaches, for some players, will allow the legal process to play out prior to dismissal. I'm not going to say that Mueller should or shouldn't dismiss him, but this is just the most recent event in a large group of events. Mueller has turned over the roster with a purpose. We will see what results he obtains.

[Redbird Recon]

You attempting to modify what he said to be about being average in conference next season is nothing more than revisionist history. There are a dozen comparisons that could be made for saying IlSU might be decent. When you start drawing comparisons to WSU's Final Four team, you're clearly saying the potential exists to be far more than "average."

WSU is an obvious comparison for a team overachieving on the backs of newcomers. It an easy-to-understand example that newcomers don't necessarily mean doom and gloom while they're still new. You just posted a poorly researched article that would lead the reader to the conclusion that Muller is playing with 5 guys next year. Earlier today I made a joke on twitter comparing HCDM to Norman Dale while referencing that same article. Does that mean I think Muller will make a run at the Indiana state championship? (That's a rhetorical question. This thread is starting to bore me. I'm out.)

BTW, here's the updated roster: http://www.goredbirds.com/sports/m-bask ... l-mtt.html

[rlh04d]

You attempting to modify what he said to be about being average in conference next season is nothing more than revisionist history. There are a dozen comparisons that could be made for saying IlSU might be decent. When you start drawing comparisons to WSU's Final Four team, you're clearly saying the potential exists to be far more than "average."

WSU is an obvious comparison for a team overachieving on the backs of newcomers. It an easy-to-understand example that newcomers don't necessarily mean doom and gloom while they're still new. You just posted a poorly researched article that would lead the reader to the conclusion that Muller is playing with 5 guys next year. Earlier today I made a joke on twitter comparing HCDM to Norman Dale while referencing that same article. Does that mean I think Muller will make a run at the Indiana state championship? (That's a rhetorical question. This thread is starting to bore me. I'm out.)

BTW, here's the updated roster: http://www.goredbirds.com/sports/m-bask ... l-mtt.html

Of course WSU is an obvious example, but that comparison ABSOLUTELY is closer to saying IlSU will be similar to WSU last year rather than being average. That's a comparison that you make a caveat on rather than just using as a blanket comparison if you don't want it to be taken as a literal comparison. Nothing he said had anything to do with being average. I'm certainly fine with the idea that he just used a bad comparison if that's what HE wants to say rather than YOU translating his comment to be something he absolutely did not say ... but don't accuse me of bullying someone and taking them out of context when I'm quoting their statement word for word and actually responding to what was said.

If your comment about Muller/Dale is along the lines of "No one thought Norman Dale could win the Indiana state championship ... so anything is possible for Muller!", then yes, that is what you mean. I guess you can ALSO translate that the way you are, as simply using Dale as an example of anything being possible and having absolutely nothing to do with Muller, but that's not the most logical interpretation and you know it.

As for the article ... an assistant coach left. That's the only point of it I care about.

[CaliRdBrd]

You attempting to modify what he said to be about being average in conference next season is nothing more than revisionist history. There are a dozen comparisons that could be made for saying IlSU might be decent. When you start drawing comparisons to WSU's Final Four team, you're clearly saying the potential exists to be far more than "average."

WSU is an obvious comparison for a team overachieving on the backs of newcomers. It an easy-to-understand example that newcomers don't necessarily mean doom and gloom while they're still new. You just posted a poorly researched article that would lead the reader to the conclusion that Muller is playing with 5 guys next year. Earlier today I made a joke on twitter comparing HCDM to Norman Dale while referencing that same article. Does that mean I think Muller will make a run at the Indiana state championship? (That's a rhetorical question. This thread is starting to bore me. I'm out.)

BTW, here's the updated roster: http://www.goredbirds.com/sports/m-bask ... l-mtt.html

you don't need to justify anything to rlh04d. Every Redbird fan I know of is a huge fan of turning over a roster that was very average (outside of Carmichael and possibly Brown) and incredibly overrated coming in to last season. When Moore left it left a gaping hole in an average team with no one to guide it. I love what Muller is doing. I love the recruits.

[Redbird Recon]

You attempting to modify what he said to be about being average in conference next season is nothing more than revisionist history. There are a dozen comparisons that could be made for saying IlSU might be decent. When you start drawing comparisons to WSU's Final Four team, you're clearly saying the potential exists to be far more than "average."

WSU is an obvious comparison for a team overachieving on the backs of newcomers. It an easy-to-understand example that newcomers don't necessarily mean doom and gloom while they're still new. You just posted a poorly researched article that would lead the reader to the conclusion that Muller is playing with 5 guys next year. Earlier today I made a joke on twitter comparing HCDM to Norman Dale while referencing that same article. Does that mean I think Muller will make a run at the Indiana state championship? (That's a rhetorical question. This thread is starting to bore me. I'm out.)

BTW, here's the updated roster: http://www.goredbirds.com/sports/m-bask ... l-mtt.html

Of course WSU is an obvious example, but that comparison ABSOLUTELY is closer to saying IlSU will be similar to WSU last year rather than being average. That's a comparison that you make a caveat on rather than just using as a blanket comparison if you don't want it to be taken as a literal comparison. Nothing he said had anything to do with being average. I'm certainly fine with the idea that he just used a bad comparison if that's what HE wants to say rather than YOU translating his comment to be something he absolutely did not say ... but don't accuse me of bullying someone and taking them out of context when I'm quoting their statement word for word and actually responding to what was said.

If your comment about Muller/Dale is along the lines of "No one thought Norman Dale could win the Indiana state championship ... so anything is possible for Muller!", then yes, that is what you mean. I guess you can ALSO translate that the way you are, as simply using Dale as an example of anything being possible and having absolutely nothing to do with Muller, but that's not the most logical interpretation and you know it.

As for the article ... an assistant coach left. That's the only point of it I care about.

The original poster thanked me for setting you straight. Everyone but you (and maybe shoxrox) is on the same page. Feel free to catch up. The 'Hoosiers' allusion was referencing Dale's use of 5 players for a portion of Hickory's fictional season.

As for the article ... I thought you posted a different NBC Sports article. My bad.

You're either really smart, enjoy excessive banter, and should be using your skills more productively.
Or you're really dense. If that is the case, for the sake of this board & your well-being, I'm bidding you adieu!

[rlh04d]

The original poster thanked me for setting you straight. Everyone but you (and maybe shoxrox) is on the same page.

Oh, I'm certainly on the same page. He made a stupid remark and you translated it for him in a way that makes him seem less stupid. And I'm sure he is very thankful for your efforts to make his comment look less like something other than what it actually was. If you think you and the guy you're making excuses for constitute a majority or consensus opinion, though, I'm not sure you know what those words mean.

If his comment didn't reflect his actual opinion, it's because he wrote it wrong, not that it was taken out of context. A normal person would stop and say "maybe I used a bad comparison there, this is what I meant..." rather than running to his big brother to accuse someone of cyber bullying.

And if you're just catching on now that I just like to argue, you're late to the party.