Big Questions

[glm38]

WICH- Will the Shox live up to the pressure and win at the Arch?
No, but that shouldn't matter. If they're gracious and allow a second Valley team into the tourney, they will still be criticized for "never winning the big one".

I agree with a lot of your answers. But this one makes no sense. Do you really think there is any "graciousness" in Marshall? And I don't mean that in a bad way. He is hyper competitive. Which is a good thing. To suggest he won't go all out to win the Valley tournament is ridiculous. The only circumstance I could foresee that happening is if a couple of Shox are nursing injuries and they (Shox) were already a lock for the tournament. Then I could see him holding those players out for the more important NCAA's. But even then I think he would have the drive to still try to win St. Louis.

Based on the way he has looked (disappointed, angry) in past years when the Shox have lost in St. Louis (with very good teams) I just don't think there is any way he "lets up" and lets another team win to let a 2nd (or 3rd) team into the NCAA's.

[glm38]

MOST- Can the young bears surprise?

I think we will. The bears are still young but IMO we have as much talent as anyone in the Valley outside of WSU. Post play has been a major concern but most Bears fans (and Lusk) think that will be much improved next year. Here's a recent article that addresses that:

http://www.news-leader.com/article/2013 ... basketball

[rlh04d]

WICH- Will the Shox live up to the pressure and win at the Arch?
No, but that shouldn't matter. If they're gracious and allow a second Valley team into the tourney, they will still be criticized for "never winning the big one".

I agree with a lot of your answers. But this one makes no sense. Do you really think there is any "graciousness" in Marshall? And I don't mean that in a bad way. He is hyper competitive. Which is a good thing. To suggest he won't go all out to win the Valley tournament is ridiculous. The only circumstance I could foresee that happening is if a couple of Shox are nursing injuries and they (Shox) were already a lock for the tournament. Then I could see him holding those players out for the more important NCAA's. But even then I think he would have the drive to still try to win St. Louis.

Based on the way he has looked (disappointed, angry) in past years when the Shox have lost in St. Louis (with very good teams) I just don't think there is any way he "lets up" and lets another team win to let a 2nd (or 3rd) team into the NCAA's.

Even if we were undefeated going into Arch Madness and we had to bench every one of our starters, Marshall would still be doing everything he could to win.

Being happy to take second place isn't in him.

[C0|db|00ded]

[quote="rlh04d"][quote="glm38"][quote="Aargh"]


WICH- Will the Shox live up to the pressure and win at the Arch?
No, but that shouldn't matter. If they're gracious and allow a second Valley team into the tourney, they will still be criticized for "never winning the big one".[/quote]


I agree with a lot of your answers. But this one makes no sense. Do you really think there is any "graciousness" in Marshall? And I don't mean that in a bad way. He is hyper competitive. Which is a good thing. To suggest he won't go all out to win the Valley tournament is ridiculous. The only circumstance I could foresee that happening is if a couple of Shox are nursing injuries and they (Shox) were already a lock for the tournament. Then I could see him holding those players out for the more important NCAA's. But even then I think he would have the drive to still try to win St. Louis.

Based on the way he has looked (disappointed, angry) in past years when the Shox have lost in St. Louis (with very good teams) I just don't think there is any way he "lets up" and lets another team win to let a 2nd (or 3rd) team into the NCAA's.[/quote]
Even if we were undefeated going into Arch Madness and we had to bench every one of our starters, Marshall would still be doing everything he could to win.

Being happy to take second place isn't in him.[/quote]

I don't agree with all of that. Yes, HCGM is hyper-competitive but he sees the big picture. If he rolls through the Valley and has a great seed locked up, he is preparing for the NCAA's. He isn't going to do "everything he can" to win. Player minutes will be carefully monitored. Any nastiness on the opposing team will get players like Early replaced with Lufile. HCGM isn't going to waste any chance of winning a national championship with dashing the hopes and dreams of a desperate Valley team trying to win a ticket at the State Farm Missouri Valley Welfare Tournament.


T


...

[rlh04d]

I don't agree with all of that. Yes, HCGM is hyper-competitive but he sees the big picture. If he rolls through the Valley and has a great seed locked up, he is preparing for the NCAA's. He isn't going to do "everything he can" to win. Player minutes will be carefully monitored. Any nastiness on the opposing team will get players like Early replaced with Lufile. HCGM isn't going to waste any chance of winning a national championship with dashing the hopes and dreams of a desperate Valley team trying to win a ticket at the State Farm Missouri Valley Welfare Tournament.


T


...

That's why I mentioned him benching our starters.

[glm38]

I just don't buy Marshall conceding St. Louis under any circumstances (except significant injuries) . Guess we'll see what happens if the Shox stay healthy and don't need the win to get into the big tournament.

[BEARZ77]

I believe that WSU deserves all the respect in the world for their Final 4 run, and any references to an "easy route" are stupid for a number of reasons. There are no easy routes to a Final 4 even if some are less trying than others, and theirs clearly wasn't. Secondly, I believe the best teams in the MVC are very capable of playing with the upper level teams in the BCS conferences when given equal opportunity; isn't that what we all have always felt ?

What I don't understand is the end result of that being a general lack of respect being displayed for the rest of the Valley. Certainly WSU's run elevates their status, but the expressed belief that it greatly separates them above the rest of the league is inconsistent with the rest of the facts. They proved in the Tourney they could play with anyone in the country. But they also proved during league play that 1/3 of the time they played Valley schools they weren't the best team on the court and that included post season. 14-7 with 4 teams beating you isn't dominant separation. It suggests a team that was one of the best in the country played in a very competitive league. Historically , while Gonzaga and Memphis have gone on to dominate their leagues[ although St. Marys has also been fairly consistently right there with Gonzaga lately] after Final 4 runs, Butler, VCU and George Mason did not.

I know the case will be made for their injuries, and that's valid, although any projection of a change in record is subjective, One could equally argue the point that Marshall does a much better job when he has less options, as it was just 3 years ago that WSU fans also often noted they had the best two teams in the Valley but couldn't win the league or tournament then either, because Marshall struggled to have the right combinations on the floor at crunch time and that team never jelled until the NIT run.

If indeed WSU comes back and goes 17-1 or something like that, then perhaps you are seeing a program separate itself; but second place , no Tourney title and 14-7 against it's league. HUH? It doesn't weaken WSU's status nationally, to suggest the rest of the Valley is better than it's being given credit for. WSU still showed they could play and beat elite teams on neutral courts. The Valley doesn't have to be weak for WSU to be strong.

[Wufan]

I think the perceived separation you are seeing amongst WSU fans is because many expect the Shockers to be better this year than last and because the league is expected to be worse.

Loyola is no Creighton.
UNI loses three of their top four scorers.
Evansville loses four of their top five scorers.
Indiana State, the team that should challenge the Shockers, returns almost everyone from a team that was 18-15 with a .500 conference record.
Ill. St returns two non-starters from last year and a red-shirt.
Bradley and MSU will be better, but better than 7 conference wins isn't saying much.
Drake and SIU might be worse than the 6 or 7 games they won last year.

To me it looks like WSU will separate itself from the rest of the league in 2013-14. Hard to say after that.

[jackwagon]

I believe that WSU deserves all the respect in the world for their Final 4 run, and any references to an "easy route" are stupid for a number of reasons. There are no easy routes to a Final 4 even if some are less trying than others, and theirs clearly wasn't. Secondly, I believe the best teams in the MVC are very capable of playing with the upper level teams in the BCS conferences when given equal opportunity; isn't that what we all have always felt ?

What I don't understand is the end result of that being a general lack of respect being displayed for the rest of the Valley. Certainly WSU's run elevates their status, but the expressed belief that it greatly separates them above the rest of the league is inconsistent with the rest of the facts. They proved in the Tourney they could play with anyone in the country. But they also proved during league play that 1/3 of the time they played Valley schools they weren't the best team on the court and that included post season. 14-7 with 4 teams beating you isn't dominant separation. It suggests a team that was one of the best in the country played in a very competitive league. Historically , while Gonzaga and Memphis have gone on to dominate their leagues[ although St. Marys has also been fairly consistently right there with Gonzaga lately] after Final 4 runs, Butler, VCU and George Mason did not.

I know the case will be made for their injuries, and that's valid, although any projection of a change in record is subjective, One could equally argue the point that Marshall does a much better job when he has less options, as it was just 3 years ago that WSU fans also often noted they had the best two teams in the Valley but couldn't win the league or tournament then either, because Marshall struggled to have the right combinations on the floor at crunch time and that team never jelled until the NIT run.

If indeed WSU comes back and goes 17-1 or something like that, then perhaps you are seeing a program separate itself; but second place , no Tourney title and 14-7 against it's league. HUH? It doesn't weaken WSU's status nationally, to suggest the rest of the Valley is better than it's being given credit for. WSU still showed they could play and beat elite teams on neutral courts. The Valley doesn't have to be weak for WSU to be strong.

extremely well put!

[Veritas]

I believe that WSU deserves all the respect in the world for their Final 4 run, and any references to an "easy route" are stupid for a number of reasons. There are no easy routes to a Final 4 even if some are less trying than others, and theirs clearly wasn't. Secondly, I believe the best teams in the MVC are very capable of playing with the upper level teams in the BCS conferences when given equal opportunity; isn't that what we all have always felt ?

What I don't understand is the end result of that being a general lack of respect being displayed for the rest of the Valley. Certainly WSU's run elevates their status, but the expressed belief that it greatly separates them above the rest of the league is inconsistent with the rest of the facts. They proved in the Tourney they could play with anyone in the country. But they also proved during league play that 1/3 of the time they played Valley schools they weren't the best team on the court and that included post season. 14-7 with 4 teams beating you isn't dominant separation. It suggests a team that was one of the best in the country played in a very competitive league. Historically , while Gonzaga and Memphis have gone on to dominate their leagues[ although St. Marys has also been fairly consistently right there with Gonzaga lately] after Final 4 runs, Butler, VCU and George Mason did not.

I know the case will be made for their injuries, and that's valid, although any projection of a change in record is subjective, One could equally argue the point that Marshall does a much better job when he has less options, as it was just 3 years ago that WSU fans also often noted they had the best two teams in the Valley but couldn't win the league or tournament then either, because Marshall struggled to have the right combinations on the floor at crunch time and that team never jelled until the NIT run.

If indeed WSU comes back and goes 17-1 or something like that, then perhaps you are seeing a program separate itself; but second place , no Tourney title and 14-7 against it's league. HUH? It doesn't weaken WSU's status nationally, to suggest the rest of the Valley is better than it's being given credit for. WSU still showed they could play and beat elite teams on neutral courts. The Valley doesn't have to be weak for WSU to be strong.

extremely well put!

A bit verbose. He's no E. Hemingway.