Gregg Marshall

[shoxrox]

And Marty Simmons was better than Marshall in two games last year…Matta is pretty bad ass!

Winning a game doesn't say that the coach that wins is better by any means. But Marshall was clearly the better coach in that tournament game.

We had Ohio State scouted and we were very well prepared. We knew what distances to play guys like Craft at. We knew what pressure to put onto people. We shifted lineups to compensate for any move they made. Ohio State, from my perception, didn't scout us at all, and simply tried to out-talent us.

I guess you can argue how much of that was on our assistant coaches as well. But I was very unimpressed with Ohio State's preparation for an Elite 8 game. Maybe that's on the players for not taking the coach's game plan seriously -- but that's also on the coach to make his players buy in.

Let's pump the breaks just a bit here.

I understand you're a WSU and Marshall fan and this is an MVC forum, but to suggest that OSU and Matta didn't scout WSU and relied on its talent to win the game is silly. We're talking about a four-point game in the Elite 8. 70-66.

WSU just happened to outplay OSU in the first half more than OSU outplayed WSU in the second. Four points worth, to be exact. If Marshall clearly out-coached Matta in preparation/first-half, then Matta clearly out-coached Marshall from halftime on.

But really, there isn't anything clear about a four-point game.

I don't think anyone is denying that Marshall is a good coach and a lot of things point to him being in the top XX% of DI coaches. In fact, the points you make about WSU's preparation for games is very valid. They seem to be ready to go for just about every game. Credit where it's due there.

But just like you can't draw a lot of conclusions about a coach based on a couple of games against Evansville, you can't draw a conclusion about who you would take because of a four-point Elite 8 game.

How many 20+ point leads did Ohio State have in the game? WSU? How many double-digit leads did Ohio State have in the game? WSU? How many minutes of the game did OSU lead in the game? WSU?

WSU seemed to go a bit in prevent defense mode in the second half. That's not to say that Ohio State was making bigger strides in the second half as well, credit to them.

Just like you're trying to make the point of not getting deceived because it was a 4-point game. Well, look in the mirror. Because for the majority of that game, it was anything but a close game.

The NCAA's are where teams/coaches are judged. You may not like it, maybe because your team hasn't been there in a while?, but that's the way it is. In that game, Marshall did eat Matta alive. Matta is still a great coach, but head-to-head, Marshall has that one. And don't get me this "it's just 1 game" crap either. That's how we draw comparisons when players/teams/coaches play against each other. If the teams had not played each other, we could draw hypothetical analysis and speculate between the two. However, they did play each other. So now the cold, hard facts are sealed on an actual scorecard.

And of course, Wufan is here to make sure he lays down for the regular Valley fan, because that makes him look like a good, unbiased fan.

[BTbird]

Nothing against Marshall but I would give the edge to Matta. Both of their records are very impressive. Matta has been a head coach in D1 for 13 years. He has taken 1st place 8 of those years with most of his in the Big 10.

[mvcfan]

Nothing against Marshall but I would give the edge to Matta. Both of their records are very impressive. Matta has been a head coach in D1 for 13 years. He has taken 1st place 8 of those years with most of his in the Big 10.

And Matta must be good because many people thought that after OSU won the BIG Tournament, they would easily reach the F4 and many also thought that OSU should have been the Final 1 Seed instead of Gonzaga.

[Wufan]

And of course, Wufan is here to make sure he lays down for the regular Valley fan, because that makes him look like a good, unbiased fan.

Thankfully you're here to call me out. Sometimes I get confused who I root for.

Marshall > Matta.

[TylerDurden]

No Wufan, you let Tyler off too easily. I'd like to hear about how Evansville, or Creighton, or UNI lost 3 starters to injuries this year and how while going through that type of adversity, they still won most of their games for over 3/4 of the league season without a few of their best players. People like to spout out about how WSU stubbed their toes (which I agree that we could have won talent wise), but we were playing without some of our best players with the highest BB IQ's in the league that we just couldn't easily replace. There was a reason why Wessell and Baker were starting the first 9-10 non-conference games.

Marshall did make terrible coaching decisions by not playing his injured starters against Evansville.

In fact, this is something that the whole league needs to get their heads around. There have been a ridiculous number of posts about "the Valley must have been pretty good last year, because WSU only went 12-6 against those teams." It's fools gold. The WSU team that played the league schedule and the WSU team that played the NCAA tournament schedule weren't even close to on the same level. Watch and compare some of the games. The level of play is just incredibly different.

I'm not bitter. Injuries are part of the season. Other teams had injuries, too.The 12-6 league record is accurate to what the team was throughout that stretch. But given the drastic impact of team play from players that weren't available during all or parts of that 12-6 stretch, it's a terrible idea to compare any league team to the F4 team and assume similar results.

The bad news is that a lot of the Valley teams and fan bases are doing that this off-season.

The "potentially" good news for them is that they still don't have to face that team next year.

Before this year, I viewed Marshall as an above average D1 coach, with a personality that matched perfectly with WSU and the Wichita community. He's an excellent recruiter. He's very good at building/teaching a winning system with his guys and his style. He was decent at creating a gameplan. He was ok at in-game management. I think the gameplanning and in-game management took a major step forward last season, even from the first tip against VCU, but very much in NCAA play.

These pretty much have nothing to do with what I posted.

How many 20+ point leads did Ohio State have in the game? WSU? How many double-digit leads did Ohio State have in the game? WSU? How many minutes of the game did OSU lead in the game? WSU?

WSU seemed to go a bit in prevent defense mode in the second half. That's not to say that Ohio State was making bigger strides in the second half as well, credit to them.

Just like you're trying to make the point of not getting deceived because it was a 4-point game. Well, look in the mirror. Because for the majority of that game, it was anything but a close game.

The NCAA's are where teams/coaches are judged. You may not like it, maybe because your team hasn't been there in a while?, but that's the way it is. In that game, Marshall did eat Matta alive. Matta is still a great coach, but head-to-head, Marshall has that one. And don't get me this "it's just 1 game" crap either. That's how we draw comparisons when players/teams/coaches play against each other. If the teams had not played each other, we could draw hypothetical analysis and speculate between the two. However, they did play each other. So now the cold, hard facts are sealed on an actual scorecard.

And of course, Wufan is here to make sure he lays down for the regular Valley fan, because that makes him look like a good, unbiased fan.

Well...um...never mind.

When does the season start?

[shoxrox]

Thought so.

[AngryWheat=FTW=]

This thread has gone to hell. Perhaps some conference unity can be regained through something we all enjoy --- http://wheatshockers.com/showthread.php?tid=476&page=3

[musiccitybulldog]

After final four success last year, this could be a pivotal year in the Marshall story at Wichita.
I think Marshall has it "going on" and is capable of putting a team together, coaching a final four or national championship winning team and winning key important games this season.

I was a young Bulldog fan when Drake had their national success with Maury John as coach, Making it to the Final Four in 69, then the elite eight the next season, elite eight again in 71, then.....gone.

Can any school keep a coach with that kind of success, no matter where the school, size, record of success?

No fan wants to see runs like this end, but as in my case, the acquired success period can last a long, long time in fans memories.

[Bradleyfan1]

Just from my own experience with the 2006 run to the SWEET 16 , I wish I would have been older and soaked it all in! Soak it in Shocks! Not trying to compare the runs because just last yr alone you won 2 more games. Worse competition but still. I TOTALLY COINCIDE THAT THE LAST 10 YRS YOU HAVE KICKED OUR ASS! Puke.


Ok and here is where the crazy but right comes out! The run for the shockers is done! Gregg Marshall i tip my hat to you sir. just between BU,UNI, ISU blue the mighty weatbushes lose 7 games this yr o man thatd bring ya down a peg or 2.

[Shockerfan13]

Just from my own experience with the 2006 run to the SWEET 16 , I wish I would have been older and soaked it all in! Soak it in Shocks! Not trying to compare the runs because just last yr alone you won 2 more games. Worse competition but still. I TOTALLY COINCIDE THAT THE LAST 10 YRS YOU HAVE KICKED OUR ASS! Puke.


Ok and here is where the crazy but right comes out! The run for the shockers is done! Gregg Marshall i tip my hat to you sir. just between BU,UNI, ISU blue the mighty weatbushes lose 7 games this yr o man thatd bring ya down a peg or 2.

LMAO on so many different levels.......