Bears vs #6 Shockers 7pm Jan 11

[shocktheheart]

1. Arizona --only beat Drexel by 4
2. Syracuse--didn't beat St. Francis until the final minute of play
3. Wisconsin--outscored in the 2nd half and barely beat UWGB
4. Mich St--won by just 4 against sub .500 Oakland and lost by double digits to UNC. And not a good UNC team either
5. Villanova--only beat Delaware by 4 and needed OT against Butler
6. Oklahoma St--lost to K-State and Memphis, beat Butler and West Virginia by a combined 3 pts
7. Baylor-- 5 pts over Charleston Southern, 2 pts over South Carolina, 1 pt over Dayton and took a beat down in Ames to Iowa State.
8. Florida--only beat Arkansas by 2 pts
9. Iowa St--beat BYU and Boise St by only 6 combined pts, needed OT to beat UNI
10. Pittsburgh--didn't even score 45 pts in a loss to Cincy. I mean, I'm a UNI, Ben Jacobson control-the-pace-slow-it-way-down fan and that's pathetic

Wichita St at 12.

So what does this prove? You are cherry picking. If I looked at all of the top 10's schedule would find some good scores against some good teams, maybe even some beat downs, some close scores or losses to weaker teams. But, over a season, year after year, these teams play a much tougher schedule than mid majors . Can't support your using one game(s) as an example. ACC, Big 10, Big 12, etc. can be down, but their schedules, especially in conference, are tough every year. Plus, when they are down, relative to what---last year, 5 years ago, etc. How many times, how often, and what were the seeds of each of these top 10 teams to the NCAA TX-relative to how many times, frequency and seeds at the NCAA TX by mid majors (including MVC teams).

Get real!!

Then don't cherry pick one game from WSU and tell us they aren't a top 10 team because of one game. Works both ways.

[KC MVC FAN]

1. Arizona --only beat Drexel by 4
2. Syracuse--didn't beat St. Francis until the final minute of play
3. Wisconsin--outscored in the 2nd half and barely beat UWGB
4. Mich St--won by just 4 against sub .500 Oakland and lost by double digits to UNC. And not a good UNC team either
5. Villanova--only beat Delaware by 4 and needed OT against Butler
6. Oklahoma St--lost to K-State and Memphis, beat Butler and West Virginia by a combined 3 pts
7. Baylor-- 5 pts over Charleston Southern, 2 pts over South Carolina, 1 pt over Dayton and took a beat down in Ames to Iowa State.
8. Florida--only beat Arkansas by 2 pts
9. Iowa St--beat BYU and Boise St by only 6 combined pts, needed OT to beat UNI
10. Pittsburgh--didn't even score 45 pts in a loss to Cincy. I mean, I'm a UNI, Ben Jacobson control-the-pace-slow-it-way-down fan and that's pathetic

Wichita St at 12.

So what does this prove?/quote]
It very well proves the point that he was trying to make.....that WSU is no worse than these teams, based on current results.

Near as I can tell, you didn't have a point, other than you are a BCS toolbag.

OK, go play the ACC schedule and teams, the Big 12, PAC ??, any one of a number of east coast conference teams and schedules and then come back and give me your figures and results. Don't think it will be pretty. I think you have to have lived somewhere other than KS, IA, IL, MO, and IN to understand the quality of BB in other area. In the early 80s I lived in Richmond VA. Probably 100 plus extra high quality BB teams within a 300 mile radius: Major majors, mid majors, DII and DIII, NAIA, and traditional black colleges and universities. Could not believe the level and competition. In Richmond alone there was VCU, Richmond U, a black college, up or down the road was UVA, VaTec, George Mason, James Madison, Old Dominion, William and Mary, Norfolk State and a little further down the road was the center of the ACC (Duke, NC, NCState, Wake. More people, more colleges and universities, more competition, higher level of play. Lots of extra good teams in eastern Penn, Maryland and New Jersey that most fans in the mid west have never of. MVC plays good BB, but so do a lot of other mid major schools and conferences..

[Cdizzle]

Wow.

[moshock]

1. Arizona
2. Syracuse
3. Wisconsin
4. Mich St
5. Villanova
6. Oklahoma St
7. Baylor
8. Florida
9. Iowa St
10. Pittsburgh

Wichita St at 12.

By all accounts - WSU handled Baylor in their scrimmage

[shockthemonkey]

If WSU wasn't a Final 4 team last year many people that matter would not be giving them the credit they are now. But since they DID make that run and beat the people you all are saying they needed to beat and damn near beat the eventual national champion they are getting the benefit of the doubt which they deserve.

Is the Valley as good as some of the other power conferences? No. Did WSU play as tough of a non conference schedule as others? No but they didn't play a bunch of nobodies either and they have won all their games.

Combine all that and you get RESPECT. We'll see how much once they finally lose a game by how far they fall. Until then enjoy the ride if you're a fan or just enjoy the publicity for the conference if you're not.

[CBB_Fan]

If we are going to use historical anecdotes, let's not forget that for about three decades the MVC was one of the best conferences in the nation. Occasionally THE best. The east coast did not grow to dominance until the 80s. There were several reasons for this:

#1: Coaching: Most of the great coaches of the before the 80s either coached in the Midwest or were developed there. Dean Smith, Phog Allen, Adolph Rupp, Ralph Miller. All started in the Midwest. In the 80s that all changed. Guys like Mike Krzyzewski, Boehiem, Calhoun, and Patino all stayed in the East for the most part. College basketball is a coaches sport, and this made the East's top teams dominant.

#2: The Big East: The 80s also saw the best years of the Big East. Georgetown and Villanova were dominant, and good Midwestern teams (DePaul, Marquette) defected to the play in the new east coast league. More importantly, the Big East was heavily pushed by ESPN. As the headline league for the largest the firsts sports newscast, recruits flocked to the east coast instead of staying in the Midwest.

#3: Scandals: Many strong Midwestern teams at various levels were hit hard by suspensions. Wichita State, Kansas, Houston, and many other teams had setbacks during the decade. Combine this with a temporary absence of coaching talent, and the Midwest teams lagged behind their Eastern counterparts.

The point is that the MVC has seen talent and high level competition. Your memories of a super-strong east coast were an outlier, as the east coast has never been as strong at all levels as they were during the 80s. If we are talking about talent at all levels (which isn't even an argument), the MVC is in the general area of:

The best high schools in the nation (Chicago)
Many of the best junior colleges (Jayhawk conference, McKendree, Iowa Western)
Strong D2 and D3 schools (last year's champion Drury, #1 D3 college Depauw)
NAIA teams (William Penn)
Blueblood and elite programs (KU, Michigan, Michigan State)

The point is that there is NO east coast dominance. They aren't better at all levels; if anything the Midwest is stronger until we get to the power conferences. Dismissing MVC fans for not knowing talent is silly.

[TheDrake]

So what does this prove?/quote]
It very well proves the point that he was trying to make.....that WSU is no worse than these teams, based on current results.

Near as I can tell, you didn't have a point, other than you are a BCS toolbag.[/quote]


OK, go play the ACC schedule and teams, the Big 12, PAC ??, any one of a number of east coast conference teams and schedules and then come back and give me your figures and results. Don't think it will be pretty. I think you have to have lived somewhere other than KS, IA, IL, MO, and IN to understand the quality of BB in other area. In the early 80s I lived in Richmond VA. Probably 100 plus extra high quality BB teams within a 300 mile radius: Major majors, mid majors, DII and DIII, NAIA, and traditional black colleges and universities. Could not believe the level and competition. In Richmond alone there was VCU, Richmond U, a black college, up or down the road was UVA, VaTec, George Mason, James Madison, Old Dominion, William and Mary, Norfolk State and a little further down the road was the center of the ACC (Duke, NC, NCState, Wake. More people, more colleges and universities, more competition, higher level of play. Lots of extra good teams in eastern Penn, Maryland and New Jersey that most fans in the mid west have never of. MVC plays good BB, but so do a lot of other mid major schools and conferences..[/quote]

I hear that those East Coast conferences have some really good message boards too. You should go hang out there.

[shocktheheart]

WSU's beat writer on the end of the game.

◾VanVleet’s three-point play with 47.7 second to play was critical. I watched it several times and I think the block call on MSU’s Nathan Scheer was correct by a whisker. If it is, it’s because Scheer was the secondary defender and still moving as VanVleet began his upward motion, a rule change explained here. It also appears that WSU is fortunate Lufile wasn’t called for taunting Scheer after the play. The replay doesn’t give us a great angle and I can’t be sure if Lufile said anything, but he definitely leaned over Scheer during the celebration after the call. Whether or not he actually taunted, that’s the kind of action that can earn attention from the officials. The Shockers caught the Bears in a small lineup, as ESPN3 color man Rich Zvosec pointed out, and Lufile, Early and Tekele Cotton did a great job hustling to the glass for rebounds. Lufile wisely avoid going over Scheer’s back for a rebound and kept the ball alive by tipping it to himself to start the possession. And as Early going for the tip-dunk, well, I give him props for a sense of drama even if a simpler play may have worked.
◾I was sitting next to MVC coordinator of officials Eddie Jackson and he said the jump-ball call, secured by Ron Baker late in overtime after a missed free throw, was correct. Baker dove on the ball and never moved. That’s not a travel. I am curious if WSU was trying to call a timeout – it had two remaining. Smart play by Baker to stay in one place and run clock while the Bears complained. It may be awhile before Early is allowed to box out on a critical free throw. Jarmar Gulley easily pushed him under the basket and almost tipped in the miss to tie the game.

Read more here: http://blogs.kansas.com/shockwaves/2014 ... rylink=cpy

[PantherSigEp]

1. Arizona --only beat Drexel by 4
2. Syracuse--didn't beat St. Francis until the final minute of play
3. Wisconsin--outscored in the 2nd half and barely beat UWGB
4. Mich St--won by just 4 against sub .500 Oakland and lost by double digits to UNC. And not a good UNC team either
5. Villanova--only beat Delaware by 4 and needed OT against Butler
6. Oklahoma St--lost to K-State and Memphis, beat Butler and West Virginia by a combined 3 pts
7. Baylor-- 5 pts over Charleston Southern, 2 pts over South Carolina, 1 pt over Dayton and took a beat down in Ames to Iowa State.
8. Florida--only beat Arkansas by 2 pts
9. Iowa St--beat BYU and Boise St by only 6 combined pts, needed OT to beat UNI
10. Pittsburgh--didn't even score 45 pts in a loss to Cincy. I mean, I'm a UNI, Ben Jacobson control-the-pace-slow-it-way-down fan and that's pathetic

Wichita St at 12.

So what does this prove? You are cherry picking. If I looked at all of the top 10's schedule would find some good scores against some good teams, maybe even some beat downs, some close scores or losses to weaker teams.

Whoosh!!!

[ShoxNAwe]

For anyone knocking WSU's schedule, in particular...every one of those big-time power conference schools had the opportunity to play WSU in Dallas prior to the season. Which one manned up and took the challenge? Not a one.