What if Creighton was still in the Valley...

[Pinkie]

I just watched the highlights of the jays game and can say without question that we'd have gotten destroyed against that Creighton team shooting that way. I think everyone would have. Hell SIU and Loyola might have given up 130 points.

With all due respect, go eff yourself. CU shot 70% against WSU IN OMAHA last season and won by 12.

They'll never shoot it that well again, and they sure as hell wouldn't against a WSU team that plays defense, unlike the shell of a team Nova put on the floor Monday.

For the record, there are a number of teams capable of beating WSU this year, but it sure as hell wouldn't be a pillow soft bunch of birds from up north. They would be battling the Trees for a solid 2nd at this point.

So you think a Creighton team that beat you twice last year and returned most of their team wouldn't compete with WSU? Delusional.

[glm38]

I don't think it's delusional at all to think WSU would take CU both games this year if they were still in the MVC. Why? No Echenique who supplied about 90% of CU's toughness and physicality last year. WSU lost Hall (big loss) but they are still a tough and physical team. In fact WSU may be better overall than last year. Is CU? Not IMO.

I think CU could compete with them. But WSU would win 9 out of 10 times.

[DoubleJayAlum]

I don't think it's delusional at all to think WSU would take CU both games this year if they were still in the MVC. Why? No Echenique who supplied about 90% of CU's toughness and physicality last year. WSU lost Hall (big loss) but they are still a tough and physical team. In fact WSU may be better overall than last year. Is CU? Not IMO.

I think CU could compete with them. But WSU would win 9 out of 10 times.

Creighton is better this year. I know it may seem strange, but by every available metric, including all defensive metrics, Creighton is better this year.

[Wufan]

Creighton has the rare ability to shoot lights out on any given night. That alone makes it possible for them to beat anyone. Doing it consistently is another story.

[PantherSigEp]

Doing it consistently is another story.

Us UNI fans would appreciate it if you didn't use the c-word. Thanks.

[glm38]

I don't think it's delusional at all to think WSU would take CU both games this year if they were still in the MVC. Why? No Echenique who supplied about 90% of CU's toughness and physicality last year. WSU lost Hall (big loss) but they are still a tough and physical team. In fact WSU may be better overall than last year. Is CU? Not IMO.

I think CU could compete with them. But WSU would win 9 out of 10 times.

Creighton is better this year. I know it may seem strange, but by every available metric, including all defensive metrics, Creighton is better this year.

By what metric? Weren't you ranked higher with a higher RPI most of last year as opposed to this year?

Look I respect Doug. One of the better offensive talents I've seen. And he's fun to watch. But you have to go further than the 1st or 2nd round of the ncaa 's if you are claiming to be that good. And if you don't get further than that this year - then what a waste of a talent like Doug Mc.

[rlh04d]

Gonzaga was yelled about in some corners last year and their SOS was around the 60s, around 40 or so places better than WSU's will be and they weren't even up against the same caliber of 1/2 seeds that WSU will be up against.

Every loss for WSu probably costs them a seed line from here on out. Its absolutely crazy to think that, but it is also true.

I agree with almost all of that. And unfortunately that last line.

But regarding the Gonzaga comparison: I don't think it's as apt. One, we're only a 1-seed threat while undefeated, which makes the SOS comparison between an undefeated WSU and a two-loss Gonzaga different. We're not going to get a 1-seed with two losses, even if the 1-seed field was as weak as last year, because of SOS.

We're also coming off of a Final Four. Gonzaga hasn't been beyond the Sweet 16 since, what, 1999? While Gonzaga is a bigger name overall, our current team has more credibility as a one seed than Gonzaga did because of last year's run.

The argument against Gonzaga last year naturally went to "who did they beat?" And while that question can be used against us this year as well, the obvious answer is "everyone that would play them. And Pittsburgh, Gonzaga, and Ohio State last year. And damn near Louisville, too." I don't think you can discredit an undefeated team coming off a Final Four. Or at least not with any level of credibility. We're not Gonzaga (for good or ill; we certainly don't have their SOS), and we're not Murray State. If we're undefeated, the argument needs to be that we're in the wrong conference, because we've already proven our ability to beat the best teams. The fact that we couldn't find anyone to play us in Dallas also helps counter SOS arguments.

But yes, the MVC is a complete drag on us right now. If WSU wasn't having a historic run the last few years, the MVC would be plummeting down the conference rankings right now.

[pafan]

If you took WSU out of the Valley (Forming a 9-team league), the conference would only fall from 11th to 12th in the Sagarin conference ranking. That would put the Valley behind the Horizon, but hum ho.

Note: this does not remove any strength of schedule boosts received by teams who have already played WSU.

[rlh04d]

If you took WSU out of the Valley (Forming a 9-team league), the conference would only fall from 11th to 12th in the Sagarin conference ranking. That would put the Valley behind the Horizon, but hum ho.

Note: this does not remove any strength of schedule boosts received by teams who have already played WSU.

True. It wouldn't be as big as I thought.

But being a worse conference than the Horizon would be worse than hum ho, methinks. We're already well outside the top 10 of conferences.

[TheAsianSensation]

If you took WSU out of the Valley (Forming a 9-team league), the conference would only fall from 11th to 12th in the Sagarin conference ranking. That would put the Valley behind the Horizon, but hum ho.

Note: this does not remove any strength of schedule boosts received by teams who have already played WSU.

I did a rough estimate including factoring in the SoS (warning, it's just a rough estimate, since it has to be), and I've got the conference careening past the Horizon and CUSA to 14th (percentage points behind CUSA).

edit: scratch this, I didn't factor in the wins some teams would gain back from not losing automatically to WSU. Move the MVC in between the Horizon and CUSA.