MVC post-season awards

[PantherSigEp]

Why wouldn't Tuttle return?

Yeah, has he been getting secret looks from NBA scouts? Or did he just want to leave a year early for the super-lucrative life of the Euro leagues?

[mvcfan]

Why wouldn't Tuttle return?

Yeah, has he been getting secret looks from NBA scouts? Or did he just want to leave a year early for the super-lucrative life of the Euro leagues?

Yes ha ha. I just thought he was possibly a Senior. Since he is a Junior, I'd include him as a Top 3 MVC five man.

[Wufan]

I could easily see Cotton, Baker, Van Vleet and Early as first team. and I could see giving the nod to the WSU 5 because he also had to help make the team function, undefeated season and competitive run happen. I can't remember anything quite like this since the UCLA days of the early 70's. Every Valley team has their stand out player, but this WSU team is very much an anomaly to what we normally watch compete.
Even when WSU was on the national scene in the early 80's other Valley teams had players such as Lewis Lloyd and Paul Pressey that were NBA caliber players. I think you have to give credit where it is due.

In 18 conference games this year, WSU won 15 by double digits including 4 by 20 or more points. Games that were not double digit victories:

@ #3 UNI w/o Buss (9 points)
@ #2 ISUb (7 points)
@ #4 MSU w/ M. Marshall (3 points in OT)…A game where we were down 19 at the under 12 TO in the second half.

Amazingly dominant as you look back. The 4 horseman played 120 minutes per contest and averaged 51 points, 18 rebounds, 12 assists, 6 TOs, 6 steals, 2 blocks, 46% FG, 81% FT, 37% 3FG, and 54% 2FG

[bleach]

Who I would pick not who I think will be picked.

Coach:
Marshall

1st:
Van Vleet
Early
Cotton (POY)
Gulley
Odum

2nd:
Tuttle
Baker
Beane
Mock
Carter

Frosh:
Ruder
Lynch
Simmons
Doyle (FOY)
Morgan

Newcomer:
Doyle (NOY)
Knight
Waspun
Lofton
Carter

Comeback:
Gulley

6th:
Buss

Defense:
Cotton

[Wufan]

I'm over hear beating the drum for Carter on 6th man and NCOY. While I don't think he'll win either, I think he'll be on both "teams". Anyone want to point out where I'm wrong here? I only ask because no one has agreed or disagreed with me.

[PantherSigEp]

I'm over hear beating the drum for Carter on 6th man and NCOY. While I don't think he'll win either, I think he'll be on both "teams". Anyone want to point out where I'm wrong here? I only ask because no one has agreed or disagreed with me.

I can't honestly say I have seen much of Carter or know much about him without looking at stats but I guess it depends on the definition of the award. Does it go to the best player who regularly came off the bench, or is it for the bench player who was the most valuable to his team? Personally I think it's a combo and in this instance I think Carter is hurt because his stats aren't spectacular, even though I remember you still stating that he was efficient in his minutes, so it's not a fair reflection. I also believe it's much easier to make the case that Buss and Smith were more valuable to their teams than Carter was to his.

This sounds silly, but because of all the talent on this Shockers team, Carter is almost penalized. He doesn't get the opportunity to display his skills to the extent that Buss and Smith do and it's really hard to assess him as clearly. It also makes it difficult for me to believe that without Carter the Shockers still aren't MVC Champs by a comfortable margin. Yes, I could definitely see them with an extra loss or two and no longer a 1 or 2 seed in a few weeks, but overall, would having Early Lufile and Coleby playing additional minutes to replace some of Carter's production (I'm simply picking those 3 since I'm guessing Carter is used mainly in the post at the 4/5) significantly alter the Shox outstanding season? They've steam rolled most teams and while Carter is a really good player, Marshall seems to have lots of options.

I can't completely speak for Khristian Smith, but I'd bet money that without his production this year yesterday's matchup with UNI is for Arch Madness seeding...possibly anywhere from 2-6. Smith had supposedly struggled as of late and look what happened to the Sycs. They're limping into St. Louis.

As for Nate Buss, he may be the biggest reasons (after Tuttle) that UNI finished the season looking like the team we expected at the start of the season. I'm pretty sure the Panthers lost each of the games he had to miss due to his knee injury and surgery, but as soon as he returned they went on a real hot streak. They had to win 5 of their last 6 to lock up 3rd and a month ago no one would've given the Panthers a snow balls chance in hell to do that. Especially if you told them that they'd lose to Drake. Since coming back from surgery (6 games) Buss is averaging just under 9 ppg and 5 rpg despite only playing around 19 mins/gm (I'm assuming because they have been wisely cautious with his knee following the surgery). He's also shot 86% from 3 (18-21) in that time which is just insane for a 6-9 forward or any player for that matter. His only "poor" game was his 0 pt effort against SIU but in that game we were essentially giving the ball to Tuttle in the paint or Bohannon/Morgan on the perimeter. Those 3 scored 19, 17 and 15 respectively (so 51 of 73 pts) in that game. Buss only played 15 mins that night despite picking up no fouls. Not sure if he was feeling alright but he did manage 6 boards in those 15 mins. My point being that without Buss UNI struggles to get to half as many wins and is a for sure Thursday night team. Without Buss his 20 mpg go to the likes of 6-6 Marvin Singleton and Chip Rank and true freshman Ted Friedman who scored a grand total of 15 pts this season. Singleton has really helped us on defense and rebounding since he began starting but he is nowhere near the offensive spark as Buss and can't replicate his length.

[Wufan]

I appreciate the response, and I see some reasoning there. Interestingly, you mentioned the last 6 games for Buss (post injury). In that time, Carter played 19 mpg (versus his season average of 18) all off the bench. He had one game with 0 points and 2 rebounds. Despite that, he averaged 10 points, 5 rebounds, 2 blocks, and shot 65% from the field and 80% from the line (no 3s attempted). Also, less than one TO and 2 PFs per game. He's got the stats, but no one is talking about him…in fact, on a per 40 minute basis, Carter's stats on the year are nearly identical to Carl Hall's last year. 18 points, 10 rebounds, 2 blocks, 1 assist, 1 steal, 1 TO, 55% from the floor, 66% from the line. Hall was second team All-Conference, but did notably play 27 minutes per game versus 18 for DC.

Carter be good!

[Wufan]

BTW, I have no argument against Buss or K Smith for 6th man, not to mention Pendleton at SIU (9 points 4 boards in 20 mpg). All four would be deserving of the award.

[UNIFanSince1983]

This is the vote from the guy who covers UNI for the Courier.

http://wcfcourier.com/sports/blogs/coac ... f887a.html

Interesting that local reporters can't give homer votes.

[UNIFanSince1983]

From what I saw of the Shockers (against UNI at least) Carter looked like he should have been the starter over Colbey. They are both good, but Carter seemed a lot better to me. Again those two were both good. Interestingly enough the UNI reporter from the Courier had Carter as his 6th man with Smith second. I think you can't go wrong with any of those 3. Obviously, I want to see our guy win it, but those other guys had great seasons too.