Ten Coaches on the Rise

[mathewson10]

Looking at the outcome of that season it made me ask a question that might clear things up for some ppl. I noticed Nic Moore's freshmen year at Illinois State (10ppg 3.9apg)was similar to Malcolm Armstead of WSU. My question I pose is would WSU had been as good if Armstead (10.6ppg 4apg)never transferred in & played that final 4 season?

The obvious answer would be "no." So why would a high expectation be set for a team that would lose a player of that caliber? & why should a 1st year coaches evaluation be based off the expectations that were set higher than they should have been after losing a player of this caliber? Only losing one conference game less than Jank should have been surprising after losing this talented of a player.

Unfortunately, I'm guessing some of you would still with "yes." Because you had a 4-Star freshmen that could have stepped in. Jank did not recruit any depth at point guard therefore ISU did not have anyone to step in & take this role. Offenses work well if you have a point guard that can essentially "play quarterback" for the team.

[mathewson10]

Some crazy revisionist history going on here.

No, that was I how I thought of that team & those players then & now. I watched them for the whole season not just home & away game & the tourney. All the players I talked about were very inconsistent. Did they have games where they showed flashes? Yes. But Allen was a prime example of inconsistency. Score 20 one game & score 0 the next. Idk maybe my definition of good is different than many of yours but I expect "Good" players to play consistently. Jackie Carmichael & Tyler Brown were the only two on that team that had any consistency. (Hence Carmichael's only 1st team all-conference selection)

And with zero posts on here prior, during, and after that season, you are free to say anything you want about that team now. But that doesn't mean saying it isn't revisionist history has any credibility.

I know what the vast majority of Illinois State fans thought about that team going into that year, and by the expectations of your own fanbase, he severely underachieved.

And unless you can point back to where you expected anything different from the vast majority of IlSU fans, I'll just have to assume you're revising history.

The fans & media had high expectations. I'm saying that the bar was set higher than should have been. Those items have nothing to do with how to evaluate a coach.

[rlh04d]

Looking at the outcome of that season it made me ask a question that might clear things up for some ppl. I noticed Nic Moore's freshmen year at Illinois State (10ppg 3.9apg)was similar to Malcolm Armstead of WSU. My question I pose is would WSU had been as good if Armstead (10.6ppg 4apg)never transferred in & played that final 4 season?

The obvious answer would be "no." So why would a high expectation be set for a team that would lose a player of that caliber? & why should a 1st year coaches evaluation be based off the expectations that were set higher than they should have been after losing a player of this caliber? Only losing one conference game less than Jank should have been surprising after losing this talented of a player.

Unfortunately, I'm guessing some of you would still with "yes." Because you had a 4-Star freshmen that could have stepped in. Jank did not recruit any depth at point guard therefore ISU did not have anyone to step in & take this role. Offenses work well if you have a point guard that can essentially "play quarterback" for the team.

You're getting into pointless hypotheticals. Even with Armstead no one was predicting WSU to be as good as they ended up being. With FVV at the point (or Demetric Williams, or Baker; this is why you use combo guards), WSU might have missed the tournament or won a national championship.

[rlh04d]

The fans & media had high expectations. I'm saying that the bar was set higher than should have been. Those items have nothing to do with how to evaluate a coach.

Sure. Easy to revise in retrospect.

[mathewson10]

The fans & media had high expectations. I'm saying that the bar was set higher than should have been. Those items have nothing to do with how to evaluate a coach.

Sure. Easy to revise in retrospect.

Muahaha you guys crack me up!

[rlh04d]

The fans & media had high expectations. I'm saying that the bar was set higher than should have been. Those items have nothing to do with how to evaluate a coach.

Sure. Easy to revise in retrospect.

Muahaha you guys crack me up!

And if WSU finishes outside of first this year, I'll just say you guys had too high of expectations given our 8 new players. Every team every year has challenges to overcome. If teams couldn't overcome those, no one would ever be any good.

Excuses.

[mathewson10]

Let's base history only off of what people thought at the time not by looking back & evaluating it on our own!

[rlh04d]

Let's base history only off of what people thought at the time not by looking back & evaluating it on our own!

Oh, I can look back and say that Dan Muller failed to develop a point guard, and that led to the majority of his team's problems that year. That's pretty easy to do. That doesn't mean he didn't underachieve.

[mathewson10]

Muahaha I think WSU has a few better players with a few more accolades to use that as an excuse.

[mathewson10]

Let's base history only off of what people thought at the time not by looking back & evaluating it on our own!

Oh, I can look back and say that Dan Muller failed to develop a point guard, and that led to the majority of his team's problems that year. That's pretty easy to do. That doesn't mean he didn't underachieve.

I agree. He failed to develop a PG with the players he had on the roster.