Arch Madness - semifinal discussion WSU vs IlSt, UNI vs LU

[rlh04d]

I tried to quote Championz post but I couldn't find it.

It's right here.

UNI will slaughter Illinois State and you'll be celebrating all the way to the CBI.

If we lose tomorrow we should be in NIT. Was nice to see coach muller out coach the Almighty Gregg tonight. Good luck in the NCAA tourney hopefully they don't screw u guys with matchups like last year

Winning/losing a game is not always about outcoaching.

Illinois State players made plays and WSU players couldn't respond to the zone and hit the shots when they needed to. That's not on "outcoaching."

[rlh04d]

Good post. I like Muller too. He seems to learn from his mistakes unlike a lot of Valley coaches not named Marshall and Jacobsen.

It's early but I could easily see ISUr as the #2 team in the MVC next year.

I think too many people undervalue experience in general when it comes to basketball.

Dan Muller is 39 and a three-year head coach. I think too many WSU fans want to compare him directly to Marshall, who is 52 and a 17-year head coach. Of course Marshall's a better coach -- he has an incredible amount of experience for someone his age.

For his experience, Muller is an excellent coach, and he's clearly learning as he goes. That's a great sign for future years. Everyone's going to make stupid mistakes that young in their position.

The same can be said for Illinois State's team in general. They get crapped on a lot for their low BBIQ, and justifiably sometimes, but that's a hell of a young team. They've got six of their top eight players back next year and five of their top eight back for both of the next two years. You can't play that many under-classmen that many minutes and not have dumb BBIQ mistakes. There are very, very few sophomores with the BBIQ of FVV (last year) around.

As long as Muller and that plethora of Redbird sophomores/freshmen are learning and getting better, and they seem to be, you take the "rookie" mistakes with the good and know the best is yet to come.

It's going to be interesting to see how they do against UNI today, with an experienced coach and a VERY experienced lineup.

[Wufan]

Winning/losing a game is not always about outcoaching.

Illinois State players made plays and WSU players couldn't respond to the zone and hit the shots when they needed to. That's not on "outcoaching."

I agree with this kind of. We didn't have a ton of plays that worked against the zone. Either their weren't enough plays or the execution wasn't there. Hard to tell.

[rlh04d]

Winning/losing a game is not always about outcoaching.

Illinois State players made plays and WSU players couldn't respond to the zone and hit the shots when they needed to. That's not on "outcoaching."

I agree with this kind of. We didn't have a ton of plays that worked against the zone. Either their weren't enough plays or the execution wasn't there. Hard to tell.

I think our weakness against the zone has gone on long enough that it's either a blind spot in Marshall's coaching ability, or, more likely, a weakness of our generally average to mediocre three point shooting.

I really doubt that we just don't have plays set up to break the zone. Marshall's too good and too experienced of a coach for that.

[WSpringsBird]

Jerry Palm has Northern Iowa at a 5 seed and the Shockers with a 7 seed in today's predictions. The Shockers' seeding seems crazy to me.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/bracketology

Not all that surprising. We all know how good Wichita is and can be, but their resume is weak. Their potential for marquee wins were all losses minus UNI. Potential good wins turned mediocre (Alabama).

Going into the tourney disrespected isnt a bad thing. Worked quite well a couple years ago.

I suspect you're right that WSU will do fine in the tourney, but if you look at records versus the top 100 the Shockers seems to stack up reasonably well versus teams that are projected by Palm to be seeded ahead of them.

North Carolina: projected 5 seed, 10-10 versus top 100
West Virginia: projected 4 seed, 10-8
Georgetown: projected 4 seed, 8-9
WSU: projected 7 seed, 7-4

I know this is a really simple analysis and there are lots of other relevant factors (e.g. injuries and whatnot) that I haven't accounted for, but I still wonder whether WSU deserves a higher seed. If the Redbirds had shot 65% from the line yesterday instead of 85% and therefore lost the game, would Palm still slot WSU as a 4 seed, which is where he had them before yesterday?

[Rollbird5]

If we lose tomorrow we should be in NIT. Was nice to see coach muller out coach the Almighty Gregg tonight. Good luck in the NCAA tourney hopefully they don't screw u guys with matchups like last year

Winning/losing a game is not always about outcoaching.

Illinois State players made plays and WSU players couldn't respond to the zone and hit the shots when they needed to. That's not on "outcoaching."

Most of the time we lose everyone says it's because Muller is a "poor coach" or was "badly out coached". Just want to give the man some credit for his gameplan and substitutions that paid off.

[Wufan]

Yes, Muller had a good game plan.

[Ricardo del Rio]

[quote="rlh04d"][quote="Wufan"][quote="rlh04d"][quote="Rollbird5"]
Winning/losing a game is not always about outcoaching.

Illinois State players made plays and WSU players couldn't respond to the zone and hit the shots when they needed to. That's not on "outcoaching."

I agree with this kind of. We didn't have a ton of plays that worked against the zone. Either their weren't enough plays or the execution wasn't there. Hard to tell.
I think our weakness against the zone has gone on long enough that it's either a blind spot in Marshall's coaching ability, or, more likely, a weakness of our generally average to mediocre three point shooting.

I really doubt that we just don't have plays set up to break the zone. Marshall's too good and too experienced of a coach for that.
*******************
It takes more than two 3 ball shooters to break an effective zone. Coach Marshall is stuck on Wessel at the 4 as a starter. We needed more fire power from the corner and we just did not have it.

The blind spot is Wessel.

[Ricardo del Rio]

Without causing too much discord---can someone tell me just what all of the bad feelings are concerning Wichita State and Illinois State. I don't want to stir up a hornet's nest. However, I keep seeing that there is this rivalry and I'm not sure why this is the case. They don't seem to be geographical reasons. They are two States apart. I notice a lot of really bad things said on both of their team message boards about the other--couldn't believe a few of the things I saw today (especially when one of the players from one team was momentarily injured and had to leave the game---that kind of thing is never acceptable). I don't see the rivalry in the players' eyes either--is it just a fan thing? I heard that one of the Illinois State coaches wouldn't shake the Wichita coach's hand in a game earlier this season (not sure if that's true or not) and that fans threw things at the Shockers after a game a few years or so ago in Normal (also, never acceptable). What got all this going? With civility, can anybody clue me in?

Oh my, here we go.

Nothing much is going on. The Redbird posters have a certain way about themselves.