Wichita State Vs Illinois State

[glm38]

Observer is absolutely right. Name recognition isn't supposed to count but it does. To me the best chance for us to get 2 in is for wsu to finish up with just a couple of losses post arch madness but not win in st. Louis. To me that almost assures us of getting 2 in. If wsu wins tomorrow and given their history at the arch it's a fairly likely scenario.

[Redbirdgrad]

Which is an interesting contradiction for retire12, because he also believes the RPI is bad and flawed. I'm not sure what else he wants to use to determine selection because he's contradicting himself (again).

Wow you're an idiot. The RPI is very flawed, but so is MoV. The fact that I don't like the RPI doesn't have anything to do with whether or not MoV should be included in any statistical analysis.

If you consider possessions per game when looking at MoV then maybe you're talking, but there's way more to discuss then "if x, then y". If you want to argue against me or call me out, at least get your stuff straight man.

Seriously. Would love to meet you in St. Louis. First beer is absolutely on me. You should take me up on it.

[Redbirdgrad]

You used a rating system to try to show that ISU was the better team.

But then forgot to mention that said rating system said ISU was not the better team.

I do not hold that Massey is right or wrong, but your logic was circular. You just quit drawing the circle when it fit your narrative.

Nope. I used a rating system to show Wichita State was a paper tiger this year. Had nothing to do with ISU's current ranking, etc. He wandered down that path once he was losing that argument.

Chose Massey because people around here don't like RPI... they want more "advanced metrics".
We can use literally any rating system you want and it still hold weight with my argument.

If Wichita wins tomorrow night, they've gone a long way in starting to build a resume. There's nothing impressive on it at all right now. They're not getting any negative marks either... but they're a C+. Just kinda "blah". Beating the Redbirds tomorrow night will help tremendously.

[TheObserver]

Which is an interesting contradiction for retire12, because he also believes the RPI is bad and flawed. I'm not sure what else he wants to use to determine selection because he's contradicting himself (again).

Wow you're an idiot. The RPI is very flawed, but so is MoV. The fact that I don't like the RPI doesn't have anything to do with whether or not MoV should be included in any statistical analysis.

If you consider possessions per game when looking at MoV then maybe you're talking, but there's way more to discuss then "if x, then y". If you want to argue against me or call me out, at least get your stuff straight man.

Seriously. Would love to meet you in St. Louis. First beer is absolutely on me. You should take me up on it.

Personal attack. Check. Spot on when you get pissed.

Well then I guess you don't like KenPom, Massey, or Sagarin. So tell us. What do you like? Whatever is benefiting your team? Probably so, huh?

By the way, the Massey thing was still the funniest thing I've seen on the internet in a while. Absolutely got owned. And then you ran away from it. Absolutely fantastic. Keep it up!

[TheObserver]

Chose Massey because people around here don't like RPI... they want more "advanced metrics".
We can use literally any rating system you want and it still hold weight with my argument.

What's your argument again? It keeps changing every 15 seconds when you start to twirl. Massey has WSU rated #28. Illinois State is #42. By the very own rating system you chose, Illinois State is the one coming off looking like a paper tiger. They're rated 14 spots below WSU.

You're getting into too many arguments on too many sites. Your head is spinning and you're coming out looking like a toddler that just got done playing ring-around-the-rosie and can't walk because you're too dizzy. I don't think half the time you even know what you're arguing anymore but keep fighting on because it's in your DNA to "win" (or think you've won) and get the last word.

I would bow out, at least with the Massey thing, because you're gonna drown this site out with all the tears of laughter.

[BirdsEyeView]

I haven't read all that, though I'm not sure how it applies to my response either, other than trying to move on from the point I made without acknowledging it.

Since you brought the subject up though, I have mixed feelings on MoV.

It tied to the same argument Redbirdgrad had with Hurley on our site.

I think MoV only shows depth of a team to extend leads from your 8-12 players.

It can certainly show that. Though I think that it can show more than that, and also think team depth is not a negligible item.

Like I said, I have mixed feelings on it.

Compare two teams of like ability face the same team. You have a bunch of mitigating factors at play that don't necessarily determine point spread worth.

For example @Indiana St

ISUr - up 24 at half. Offense was on fire...McIntosh wouldn't miss. Fully healthy, riding a hot streak from previous games. Does that mean we are 24 points in 20 minutes better than Indy St? No way. They were bad, got their heads down with doubt and ran into a buzz saw in that half.

WSU - struggled in a back n forth game with ISUb most of the night in the Valley opener and many key players first conference games.

ISUr put on cruise to a 19 point win
WSU scratched for an 8 point win

Does that game tell any stories about the difference between ISU and WSU? No way. That margin of victory means nothing only certain circumstances within those games impacted the final scores.

You can have the same conversation about home games against ISUb. McIntosh is hurt, offense has been in a slump. Meanwhile, WSU kicks the crap outta a given up Sycs team.

Deep bench is a factor to extend games late, so are factors like health, team trends, situation, etc.

[Redbirdgrad]

Personal attack. Check. Spot on when you get pissed.

Well then I guess you don't like KenPom, Massey, or Sagarin. So tell us. What do you like? Whatever is benefiting your team? Probably so, huh?

By the way, the Massey thing was still the funniest thing I've seen on the internet in a while. Absolutely got owned. And then you ran away from it. Absolutely fantastic. Keep it up!

Oh Observer you silly little boy, I'm not "pissed" at all (nice choice of words with the impending yellow out tomorrow by the way!). With you Shocker fans it's way too easy.

I love a lot of those rating systems. WAY more than RPI... but MoV is not something I'm too on board with. Depends on the weighting of it in said system. You see.. you can like the whole of something without liking individual parts.

The Massey thing IS funny when you read all the way through it and see that Hurley came to the exact same conclusion I did. It's funny when the person you're discussing with starts making your points for you....

[Redbirdgrad]

What's your argument again? It keeps changing every 15 seconds when you start to twirl. Massey has WSU rated #28. Illinois State is #42. By the very own rating system you chose, Illinois State is the one coming off looking like a paper tiger. They're rated 14 spots below WSU.

And see, this right here Observer is why you need to step away from the keyboard and let the grown ups do the talking.
I was never comparing ISU and Wichita per Massey. Not once. I was using Massey (and you can insert any rating system you want here because they all say the same thing) to show Wichita hadn't beat anyone. Feel free to use any one you want. I'll wait. Name one. They all say the same thing. You haven't beaten anyone yet.

Secondly.. do you know what a paper tiger IS? Do you know what that term MEANS? Stop getting into conversations where you don't know what everyone is talking about.

You're getting into too many arguments on too many sites. Your head is spinning and you're coming out looking like a toddler that just got done playing ring-around-the-rosie and can't walk because you're too dizzy. I don't think half the time you even know what you're arguing anymore but keep fighting on because it's in your DNA to "win" (or think you've won) and get the last word.

I'm on 2 sites, thank you. This one, and RBF. The only reason my head is spinning is because I have to teach Logic 101 to you Wichita folk. Please tell me you understand the conversation we're having now, because I'm tired of having to try and slow down and catch you up.

I would bow out, at least with the Massey thing, because you're gonna drown this site out with all the tears of laughter.

They're laughing at you Observer... you're the one completely clueless to the original argument. But like always you come in guns blazing without understanding the topic at hand.

Still not willing to take me up on St. Louis huh? Too bad...

[TheObserver]

Another personal attack.. check. Stop getting so pissed off. I'm glad you're above those nasty, meany, name-calling Shocker fans though. Angelic, you are.

So what system do you like? You can't answer the question because it paints you in a corner of contradiction. I get it. You'll never admit it but your deflection practices have already answered the question.

And what conclusion was that? lol, you still can't acknowledge it because you got owned so badly. I mean it was set up perfectly. You pick your own system and try to prove WSU is a paper tiger. But in YOUR very own system the ratings say WSU is better by 14 spots. I mean.. how awesome is that. You seriously could not make that stuff up. Comedic GOLD.

[Cdizzle]

I was never comparing ISU and Wichita per Massey. Not once.

False.

You list the opponents of both teams per Massey, then immediately, literally use the word compare in your post.

Then you talk about beating better teams.

Then you talk about manipulating the data to "tip the data in favor" of ISU.

That's one literal and 2 more completely obvious "comparisons" of the two teams, using Massey, that you claim you never did.