1st Team All Valley/2nd Team All Valley

[Redhawk]

I would contend that Zach Brown is a better defender than Lee. But Lee is very good.

Zach Brown also plays about 10 minutes less than Paris Lee per night, if he was this elite defender, not sure why Marshall wouldn't play him more minutes. This isn't saying he is a bad defender, because he is really good. I am just saying, he isn't as good as Lee. Watch Lee after he's played 30 minutes, he still plays with the same intensity as anyone on the floor defensively.

Just a question about Zach Brown, and in no way shape or size is this trying to be a shot because I have only seen about 5-7 Shocker games this year, but when I watch him play, he looks uninterested at times...I have kind of felt that way for a while. I honestly thought that he would be a huge 1-2 punch for them with McDuffie this year, but I don't think he has gotten a ton better over the years.

Brown shares time with McDuffie a lot of times. Brown is an elite defender but average on offense. Lee is above average defensively and above average offense. There is also no one else on the ISUr team that comes close to Lee. There are multiple options that are really really good options for Marshall with WSU.

A 6-5" athletic defender like Brown or Jeremy Morgan is more valuable to a defense than a 6' Pg because they can match up against a wide variety of players. To say Lee is only an above average defender though is absurd. Ask Reed Timmer who was held to no FG's and 4 points last night!

[mule]

Teams play very similar schedules in conference, not the exact same schedule.

I''ll bite. What makes the 18 games only similar?

For example, Evansville is playing a MUCH more difficult schedule than ISU or WSU. Evansville has 4 games against teams with a .820 win%. WSU and ISU replace two of those games with two games against a team with a .400 win%

I'm not saying that Jaylon Brown should be a first team all-conference selection. I understand the relevance of the player to the success of the team and to the winners goes the spoils. But doesn't your argument support the fact that he has put up his "stats" against tougher competion while players from the elite teams do so against weaker teams?

[Cdizzle]

I''ll bite. What makes the 18 games only similar?

For example, Evansville is playing a MUCH more difficult schedule than ISU or WSU. Evansville has 4 games against teams with a .820 win%. WSU and ISU replace two of those games with two games against a team with a .400 win%

I'm not saying that Jaylon Brown should be a first team all-conference selection. I understand the relevance of the player to the success of the team and to the winners goes the spoils. But doesn't your argument support the fact that he has put up his "stats" against tougher competion while players from the elite teams do so against weaker teams?

It does. I made no argument to the contrary.

Though there is a natural counter to where that line leads. For example, McDuffie averages his 12.4ppg in 24mpg because games are blowouts. Brown averages his 20.8ppg in 36.4mpg. You go to per40 and suddenly McDuffie is only 2 points behind Brown, and the balance of the rest of his line blows Brown away.

[Stickboy46]

Zach Brown also plays about 10 minutes less than Paris Lee per night, if he was this elite defender, not sure why Marshall wouldn't play him more minutes. This isn't saying he is a bad defender, because he is really good. I am just saying, he isn't as good as Lee. Watch Lee after he's played 30 minutes, he still plays with the same intensity as anyone on the floor defensively.

Just a question about Zach Brown, and in no way shape or size is this trying to be a shot because I have only seen about 5-7 Shocker games this year, but when I watch him play, he looks uninterested at times...I have kind of felt that way for a while. I honestly thought that he would be a huge 1-2 punch for them with McDuffie this year, but I don't think he has gotten a ton better over the years.

Brown shares time with McDuffie a lot of times. Brown is an elite defender but average on offense. Lee is above average defensively and above average offense. There is also no one else on the ISUr team that comes close to Lee. There are multiple options that are really really good options for Marshall with WSU.

You think Lee is just an above average defender? So right now, Brown = DPOY if he is elite to you?

Just curious. ISUr team defense is outstanding and it starts from that PG who is "above average" (minus one game, which I can't comment on since I never watched it)

Eh .. wasn't meaning it was a knock on Lee. Him and Brown are the two best defenders in the league with Morgan close behind. I was just trying to find wording that said I thought Brown was better on Defense and Lee is better on Offense. Though I don't think Lee is the Offensive player of the year either.

Yet again, not a knock on Lee. Though only slightly correlated, its worth noting that using only conference only stats, Brown is the Best Defender on the Best Defense in the league (per KenPom). Lee is the Best Defender on the 2nd best defense, and Morgan is the best defender on the 3rd best Defense.

[SubGod22]

Ask Lee what he thinks of Brown as a defender. Lee looked pretty worthless offensively against Wichita the other night and most of that was Brown. I think Lee had 4 points and I know 2 of those were going backdoor on McDuffie.

They're both tremendous defenders but I'm taking Brown if I had to pick one to lock down someone else.

[mvcfan]

I think that Brown guarded Timmer too and he was held to 4 points or so also. Usually Brown guards the best scorer, positions, 1 through 4. (6'0" to 6'8"). McDuffy is the secondary defender most of the time.

[mule]

I think that Brown guarded Timmer too and he was held to 4 points or so also. Usually Brown guards the best scorer, positions, 1 through 4. (6'0" to 6'8"). McDuffy is the secondary defender most of the time.

Yeah, they held Jaylon Brown to 28 points last time!

[TheObserver]

I think that Brown guarded Timmer too and he was held to 4 points or so also. Usually Brown guards the best scorer, positions, 1 through 4. (6'0" to 6'8"). McDuffy is the secondary defender most of the time.

Yeah, they held Jaylon Brown to 28 points last time!

In a quality 17 point loss.

[mule]

I think that Brown guarded Timmer too and he was held to 4 points or so also. Usually Brown guards the best scorer, positions, 1 through 4. (6'0" to 6'8"). McDuffy is the secondary defender most of the time.

Yeah, they held Jaylon Brown to 28 points last time!

In a quality 17 point loss.

Stick to the point. The point was about guarding the best scorer. Shamet (6'4"), Brown (6'6") and McDuffie (6'8") all guarded JB, who may be all of 6'0". You may not care because of the 17 point win but I bet Marshall had something to say about it.

[Cdizzle]

Yeah, they held Jaylon Brown to 28 points last time!

In a quality 17 point loss.

Stick to the point. The point was about guarding the best scorer. Shamet (6'4"), Brown (6'6") and McDuffie (6'8") all guarded JB, who may be all of 6'0". You may not care because of the 17 point win but I bet Marshall had something to say about it.

He sure did. He said:

"Good 2nd half guys. I see our game plan resulted in a victory again."