Muller to Dayton?

[Cdizzle]

When Muller shows me he can lose 3 or 4 starters and reload, then I will believe he's not in a rebuilding year next year. Marshall has done that repeatedly and WSU has been told in every one of those years that WSU was headed toward the abyss because of all the player losses.

Muller has replaced A LOT of players during his time at IlSU. He either runs them off or they leave of their own accord. Marshall has had his share of player turnover at WSU. Marshall's player turnover seems to be based on playing time. Muller's appears to be players who don't mesh with Muller.

Notice only 1 Redbird fan defended this statement. If this were questioning anything about the Shockers, ten fans would go on the defensive and start attacking that poster.

Per your statement, we will see on Muller, but he does reload every year. He loses 5-6 players every season (transfer or graduation...including really good players like Reggie Lynch and Nic Moore) and seems to do okay reloading and competing each year. So there is some precedence that he can do this.

While I said and believe it is prudent to take a 'wait-and-see' approach, most folks round here have been yelling 'WSU will fall back to the pack' every year for like 6 years. After Marshall has already proven he can reload several times. That probably justifies a little more defense than someone that hasn't done it yet. Also, the fact that there are more WSU fans than other fans combined on this board shouldn't determine the validity of a defense method.

[DUBulldog]

When Muller shows me he can lose 3 or 4 starters and reload, then I will believe he's not in a rebuilding year next year.

Since you seem to have no clue about how the Redbirds are reloading next year here is a quick summary:

Hawkins - Replaced by Malik Yarbrough. Transfer from Saint Louis who was A10 Freshman of the Year with an avg of 10 pts and 5 rbs per game.

Wills - William Tinsley and most likely Zach Copeland. Both quality top 50 Juco shooting guards.
Typical 6'-4" to 6'-6" athletic wings that Muller loves but great shooters too.

Lee - These are the biggest shoes to fill but Birds have Elijah Clarance committed who is likely the best recruit that Muller has ever brought to ISUr. Should start from day one and will be backed up by an
improving Keyshawn Evans.

This sounds exactly like what one UNI fan said about their freshman point guard this season. I would say that very few freshman point guards can step in and be really solid from day 1. ISU might be better off with Evans starting and bringing the young guy along slowly. I think even Van Vleet was a back-up PG his first year, and Shamet redshirted his first year.

[BirdsEyeView]

While I said and believe it is prudent to take a 'wait-and-see' approach, most folks round here have been yelling 'WSU will fall back to the pack' every year for like 6 years. After Marshall has already proven he can reload several times. That probably justifies a little more defense than someone that hasn't done it yet. Also, the fact that there are more WSU fans than other fans combined on this board shouldn't determine the validity of a defense method.

Yes, I agree. Falling back was never realistic when the Shockers are continually recruiting circles around the rest of the league.

However, I was just generalizing the attack mindedness of Shox posters who are generally defensive by any negativity aimed towards their beloved 18-22 year old kids in Wichita.

Muller has had to fill some shoes over the years and keep us competitive, so he has done it, just to a much lesser extent...ie - not following a Final Four season. As has been mentioned, ISUr's record has improved each of the 5 years he has been our head coach. That shows progress, despite losing players to Power 5 schools nearly every year:

Nick Zeisloft - Indiana
Johnny Hill - Purdue
Nic Moore - SMU (2x AAC player of the year)
Reggie Lynch - Minnesota (Big 10 defensive player of the year)
Zach Lofton - Minnesota
Nick Banyard - UCF in the AAC

[Stickboy46]

While I said and believe it is prudent to take a 'wait-and-see' approach, most folks round here have been yelling 'WSU will fall back to the pack' every year for like 6 years. After Marshall has already proven he can reload several times. That probably justifies a little more defense than someone that hasn't done it yet. Also, the fact that there are more WSU fans than other fans combined on this board shouldn't determine the validity of a defense method.

Yes, I agree. Falling back was never realistic when the Shockers are continually recruiting circles around the rest of the league.

However, I was just generalizing the attack mindedness of Shox posters who are generally defensive by any negativity aimed towards their beloved 18-22 year old kids in Wichita.

Muller has had to fill some shoes over the years and keep us competitive, so he has done it, just to a much lesser extent...ie - not following a Final Four season. As has been mentioned, ISUr's record has improved each of the 5 years he has been our head coach. That shows progress, despite losing players to Power 5 schools nearly every year:

Nick Zeisloft - Indiana
Johnny Hill - Purdue
Nic Moore - SMU (2x AAC player of the year)
Reggie Lynch - Minnesota (Big 10 defensive player of the year)
Zach Lofton - Minnesota
Nick Banyard - UCF in the AAC

I think this shows the next step is to find a way to make the kids want to stay at ISU.

[Redhawk]

Birds have Elijah Clarance committed who is likely the best recruit that Muller has ever brought to ISUr. Should start from day one

This sounds exactly like what one UNI fan said about their freshman point guard this season. I would say that very few freshman point guards can step in and be really solid from day 1. ISU might be better off with Evans starting and bringing the young guy along slowly. I think even Van Vleet was a back-up PG his first year, and Shamet redshirted his first year.

I am oh so familiar with Panther fans hyperbole about their recruits. Whether he starts or not Clarance should get heavy minutes next year.

Also...Shamet played the first 3 games of his Freshman season and averaged about 20 minutes per game before the injury that earned him a medical redshirt. He obviously didn't need to sit out a year to develop!

[Stickboy46]

Birds have Elijah Clarance committed who is likely the best recruit that Muller has ever brought to ISUr. Should start from day one

This sounds exactly like what one UNI fan said about their freshman point guard this season. I would say that very few freshman point guards can step in and be really solid from day 1. ISU might be better off with Evans starting and bringing the young guy along slowly. I think even Van Vleet was a back-up PG his first year, and Shamet redshirted his first year.

I am oh so familiar with Panther fans hyperbole about their recruits. Whether he starts or not Clarance should get heavy minutes next year.

Also...Shamet played the first 3 games of his Freshman season and averaged about 20 minutes per game before the injury that earned him a medical redshirt. He obviously didn't need to sit out a year to develop!

Yes, but you also can't say that getting a year with Fred didn't help him ALOT. You saw quite a bit of Fred's hesitation, change of pace moves out of Landry in the tourney.

[Redhawk]

Yes, but you also can't say that getting a year with Fred didn't help him ALOT. You saw quite a bit of Fred's hesitation, change of pace moves out of Landry in the tourney.

That's all true Stickboy...but don't you think the Shockers would have been better WITH Shamet last season?

Paris Lee started from Day 1 for the Redbirds so not sure why it would be out of the question for Clarance.
He & Evans should form a nice combo at PG for the Birds the next two seasons.

[Cdizzle]

Yes, but you also can't say that getting a year with Fred didn't help him ALOT. You saw quite a bit of Fred's hesitation, change of pace moves out of Landry in the tourney.

That's all true Stickboy...but don't you think the Shockers would have been better WITH Shamet last season?

Paris Lee started from Day 1 for the Redbirds so not sure why it would be out of the question for Clarance.
He & Evans should form a nice combo at PG for the Birds the next two seasons.

WSU clearly would have been better with Shamet last season. But that doesn't mean he was ready to be a primary guard on a Top 25 team.

Illinois State went 17-16 (9-9) with an RPI of 133 in Paris Lee's first year. So, sure, he was fine. Not out of the question that Clarance could start from day 1. But I think it's fair to be hesitant to think he'll start from day 1 on a team that is going to be in at-large consideration.

[BCPanther]

Yes, but you also can't say that getting a year with Fred didn't help him ALOT. You saw quite a bit of Fred's hesitation, change of pace moves out of Landry in the tourney.

That's all true Stickboy...but don't you think the Shockers would have been better WITH Shamet last season?

Paris Lee started from Day 1 for the Redbirds so not sure why it would be out of the question for Clarance.
He & Evans should form a nice combo at PG for the Birds the next two seasons.

WSU clearly would have been better with Shamet last season. But that doesn't mean he was ready to be a primary guard on a Top 25 team.

Illinois State went 17-16 (9-9) with an RPI of 133 in Paris Lee's first year. So, sure, he was fine. Not out of the question that Clarance could start from day 1. But I think it's fair to be hesitant to think he'll start from day 1 on a team that is going to be in at-large consideration.

Weird. That sounds almost exactly like what UNI did with McCloud as a freshman this year. Maybe we shouldn't just automatically write him off after his first year...

[Born2Shock]

Weird. What actually happened, and what we heard Mccloud was going to be all last summer were entirely 2 different things.