Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

[Svoboda]

I think the nuclear scenario for the league is some combination of IlSU, UNI, and MSU escaping for FBS and the Fun Belt/MAC. For argument's sake, let's say all 3 happen.

You have 6 basketball schools left trying to add more basketball schools.
You have 8 football schools left trying to add more football schools....and 4 are the Dakotas, and 2 are Youngstown/WIU who have no stake in basketball.

All of a sudden, you have a clusterbleep in trying to add people. Basketball schools will want to add several quality basketball teams, who outside of the Dakotas and maybe Murray St, don't have football. Football schools will probably want to add at least 1 (probably 2, I'm guessing) quality football teams, but those football teams won't come unless they get to park their basketball here as well.

I'd actually wonder at that point if the Summit would consider sponsoring football, inviting SIU and InSU as one-sport members, and we'd get to kill the MVCF.

Because the other scenario would be the Dakotas pulling weight to get all 4 programs into the MVC to save the football end....and because of the collapsing Summit, we'd have to take WIU as well. (remember in this scenario the Horizon loses a basketball member to us, and some combo of IUPUI/IPFW is sitting there for them as well)

Make no mistake....I think all the Dakotas seem to be football-first schools. (NDak is probably hockey-first, but everyone is football > basketball).

That would leave, in theory:

MVC basketball west:
North Dakota
North Dakota St
South Dakota
South Dakota St
Drake
Western Illinois

MVC basketball east:
Evansville
Indiana St
Southern Illinois
Bradley
Loyola
Valparaiso (or insert your other favorite expansion candidate here)

MVC football:
North Dakota
North Dakota St
South Dakota
South Dakota St
Indiana St
Southern Illinois
Western Illinois
Youngstown St

And maybe even the Dakotas are successful in dragging Omaha with them in exchange for an eastern expansion basketball candidate.

Now, this is the nuclear scenario. Worst-case. But this is a plausible endgame if football is allowed to drive the bus. This is why I'm kinda hesitant on the XDSUs. I'd rather not give them a say in basketball affairs at all, because the domino effect could drag the other two Dakotas here and cause a chain reaction mess.

As a Sycamore alum, I'd rather "downgrade" to the OVC than be a part of that.

[squirrel]

One should also be careful when talking about "core members" and conference membership. "Core" membership (a member for a minimum of five years) is a meaningfully defined term by the NCAA and an integral part of maintaining integrity in the autobid system.

For leagues to maintain their autobid:

At least seven schools that are fully-fledged members of Division I This is designed to discourage leagues with multiple reclassifying institutions. It also prevents a block of reclassifying members or an entire league or significant portion thereof moving up and taking an autobid.

At least seven "core" members that have been in Division I for at least eight years This means that an unchangeable block of 7 schools must be a part of the same league (without changing leagues) and be full members of DI for a minimum of 8 years. If your league has 10 members, but one was a member for 7 years and leaves, but another member was also in for a different set of 7 years, you can not swap them out to count to get to 8 years. This is the rule that the Big East seized to maintain the league name and their autobid.

At least six "core" members that have been in the league for five years This means that a league that has seen significant turnover gets a little bit of a break to rebuild and preserve their status.

By this definition, only Loyola would not count as a core member, but after next year they would.

Didn't the NCAA get rid of/loosen that rule? Or was that a one time deal for The Summit?

Summit members

WIU - 1982
IUPUI - 2007
IPFW - 2007
NDSU - 2007
SDSU - 2007
USD - 2011
UNO - 2012
UD - 2013
ORU - 2014

The then Mid-Continent (now Summit) did not have an autobid its first 6 seasons (founded in 1982), but members had earned at-larges on merit. They did lose their autobid in 1994-95, Bryce Drew's frosh year, because they lost at least 9 members between 1991 and 1994. I can't find anything to verify this, but I believe they were to have lost it one year during the period when Valpo joined the Horizon and they kicked Chicago St out and Northeastern Illinois withdrew from DI, but may have been granted a waiver then.

If you fall below 8 members, you have a 2-year window to get back to that total number, but still maintain those core member requirements.

Leagues can apply for an exemption or waiver, but I don't have a high degree of confidence on their willingness to grant one.

[tribecalledquest]

At what FCS school (outside of Liberty), does football drive the bus? I don't disagree at the FBS level..but not the FCS level.

North Dakota St.
South Dakota St.
Eastern Washington

to name a few

Those are athletic programs you aspire to be with?

[All-MVC Fan]

If fans of the respective MVC schools are any sort of a measuring stick, it's easy to see why the league has no unified vision for the future...

What would be a "unified vision for the future"? And the league is a group of schools all looking at their own future independent of the other nine, ten, eleven, etc.

The MVC office doesn't make the decision on expansion/additions. The University President's vote on that and vote on what to do.

Thanks for that definition of "league."

My point was that the schools in the league need to decide what direction the conference should take as a long term plan. They all need to be on the same page. I don't know what that page is, but everyone should be singing out of the same hymnal. That's why the Big Ten added a crappy athletic program like Rutgers - the league had a unified vision that getting the big TV markets was more important than adding another high quality program. That's why the Big 12 hasn't done anything - the league has a unified vision to kiss Texas' ass.

I think the presidents should be able to say, "This is what the MVC is, this is where we want to go, and this is how we are going to endeavor to do it." The way it is today, the league is always playing catch up when these things happen, and the remaining member schools are losing out as a very haphazard expansion/replacement strategy never seems to coherently add schools for a definable reason. I don't really care what the vision is, it would just be nice to see one for a change...

[BirdsEyeView]

At what FCS school (outside of Liberty), does football drive the bus? I don't disagree at the FBS level..but not the FCS level.

North Dakota St.
South Dakota St.
Eastern Washington

to name a few

Those are athletic programs you aspire to be with?

I was simply answering your question.

Football will be a major driving force in the decision making process for the future of ISUr. I can guarantee you that. If the University aspires to go FBS, they will need to align themselves properly (or set themselves up for a future FBS conference bid). If ISUr is okay with being in the FCS, and more specifically the power house within the FCS, the MIssouri Valley Football Conference, then we need to make sure we stay aligned with the elite teams within this conference.

And yes, the MVFC is the elite conference in FCS Football. ISUr got into the playoffs, despite a 6-6 record. If this were the MVC basketball conference that 500 record doesn't even sniff the NIT.

[SubGod22]

At what FCS school (outside of Liberty), does football drive the bus? I don't disagree at the FBS level..but not the FCS level.

North Dakota St.
South Dakota St.
Eastern Washington

to name a few

Those are athletic programs you aspire to be with?

The XDSU's do have a stronger athletic commitment, or at least performance, than a number of MVC schools. I don't know much about EWU.

[IllinoisState]

This talk about football driving the bus is hilarious. We are talking about FCS football here, FCS. The MVC plays D1 basketball. These are two different levels. FCS football should not even be allowed in the bus.

Welcome to the message board. Your contribution right off the bat is noted

As an FYI,

2016 Illinois State Football Home attendance average - 10,157

2016-2017 Illinois State Basketball Home attendance average - 5,824


Just because the level is not FBS does not mean that Football is less of a money maker for the university (and this is only ticket sales...there is sponsorships, tailgaters who pay for parking, group outings, suites, etc.).

Football is and should be a big factor in this.

Where did you get the basketball attendance number from?

[BirdsEyeView]

This talk about football driving the bus is hilarious. We are talking about FCS football here, FCS. The MVC plays D1 basketball. These are two different levels. FCS football should not even be allowed in the bus.

Welcome to the message board. Your contribution right off the bat is noted

As an FYI,

2016 Illinois State Football Home attendance average - 10,157

2016-2017 Illinois State Basketball Home attendance average - 5,824


Just because the level is not FBS does not mean that Football is less of a money maker for the university (and this is only ticket sales...there is sponsorships, tailgaters who pay for parking, group outings, suites, etc.).

Football is and should be a big factor in this.

Where did you get the basketball attendance number from?

I simply added it up from goredbirds.com individual game box score attendance number, then divided it by total number of games. Think it's off?

[nafstrops]

This talk about football driving the bus is hilarious. We are talking about FCS football here, FCS. The MVC plays D1 basketball. These are two different levels. FCS football should not even be allowed in the bus.

Welcome to the message board. Your contribution right off the bat is noted

As an FYI,

2016 Illinois State Football Home attendance average - 10,157

2016-2017 Illinois State Basketball Home attendance average - 5,824


Just because the level is not FBS does not mean that Football is less of a money maker for the university (and this is only ticket sales...there is sponsorships, tailgaters who pay for parking, group outings, suites, etc.).

Football is and should be a big factor in this.

Total attendance: ISU Football: 60,937, ISU Basketball: 101,035

Basketball 13 scholarships to cover...Football 63 scholarships to cover.

Im not saying football is a total non factor but its not close to being on par with D1 basketball at the MVC level.

Men's Basketball:
http://college-sports.pointafter.com/l/ ... Basketball

vs.

Football:
http://college-sports.pointafter.com/l/ ... y-Football


Much higher revenues in Football[/quote]

49% of that Revenue is funded by the University thorough fees, which means the football program really lost almost 2 million dollars.

I personally played small college football and won a championship. It was fun,we were proud, fans were happy and we knew that in the scope of the sport that it meant nothing.

Success at a lower level just doesn't mean much in a sport in the scheme of things. I just can't fathom a school competing at the highest level of basketball letting a sport that is not, football, influencing any decision about the future of that program or its conference.

[BirdsEyeView]

Men's Basketball:
http://college-sports.pointafter.com/l/ ... Basketball

vs.

Football:
http://college-sports.pointafter.com/l/ ... y-Football


Much higher revenues in Football

49% of that Revenue is funded by the University thorough fees, which means the football program really lost almost 2 million dollars.

I personally played small college football and won a championship. It was fun,we were proud, fans were happy and we knew that in the scope of the sport that it meant nothing.

Success at a lower level just doesn't mean much in a sport in the scheme of things. I just can't fathom a school competing at the highest level of basketball letting a sport that is not, football, influencing any decision about the future of that program or its conference.

Where do you see 49% is funded by fees? Source?

Don't tell that success thing to NDSU. I think, generally, you are really undervaluing Football as a factor in future conference affiliation and make-up.