Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby Svoboda » April 6th, 2017, 10:08 am

Redhawk wrote:You want a more long term view Tribe?

From the MVC Media Guide:

All Time MVC BBall Standings (Current Members)

1st: ISUr
2nd: MSU
3rd: Bradley
4th: WSU
5th: SIU
6th: UNI

WSU is gone. Of the remaining top 5 all but Bradley have played football for their entire MVC
existence.

Where are you getting this? I just looked through the 2016-2017 media guide and here were the MVC only records for all schools:

574-501 Wichita State (71 seasons)
555-836 Drake (104 seasons)
536-466 Bradley (64 seasons)
363-329 Southern Illinois (41 seasons)
336-268 Illinois State (35 seasons)
272-376 Indiana State (40 seasons)
255-211 Missouri State (26 seasons)
230-220 Northern Iowa (25 seasons)
173-223 Evansville (22 seasons)
19-35 Loyola (3 seasons)

http://www.mvc-sports.com/mbasketball/m ... OZlfNLyuUk
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby tribecalledquest » April 6th, 2017, 10:12 am

Aargh wrote:Can finishing 3rd in the Valley last year be considered "on the rise", or would it be more accurate to say "didn't drop as far as the rest"?

You can go ahead and write me off as just another arrogant WSU fan. I watched all the MVC games on Fox Sports and EPSN and watched more on ESPN3. There was a lot of bad basketball played on MVC courts last year.

I managed to get tickets to a few home games. They weren't very interesting. Fans pretty much knew the walkons would be coming into the game once the lead hit 30 points.

If it's arrogant to observe that there were only 2 programs that put teams with any amount of appreciable quality on the court last year, then I'm arrogant. If that's your position, then you are accepting mediocrity as the new norm.


You are exactly right. That was true last season.

As you know that doesn't mean those trends will continue. I at least hope not. Everyone at Bradley, from the President, to AD, to Coach, to fans, expects better and knows any fault BU has in basketball has nothing to do with who else is in the league, league affiliation, Wichita State or anyone...it lies with them. No one is "settling" for mediocrity there. It just hasn't been a good 15 year run sadly.

I do think SOME Shox fans think this is now the new norm for the WSU men's BBall program. I think that is dangerous thinking.

This is partly why I don't really buy into the angst over who replaces Wichita. It's up to the current nine MVC team members to be better. Take care of your own program and things take care of themselves. Blaming it on adding Loyola or UIC is a joke. It's like complaining about scheduling. And putting all kinds of "blame" and outside factors instead of just realizing your own program isn't good enough. Start there.
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby BirdsEyeView » April 6th, 2017, 10:16 am

Redhawk wrote:You want a more long term view Tribe?

From the MVC Media Guide:

All Time MVC BBall Standings (Current Members)

1st: ISUr
2nd: MSU
3rd: Bradley
4th: WSU
5th: SIU
6th: UNI

WSU is gone. Of the remaining top 5 all but Bradley have played football for their entire MVC
existence.


This is a telling sign that Football does not play THAT big of a role over the course of history (long term view vs these Shocker driven short term viewpoints).

WSU is an outlier....nobody can compare their run to typical mid-major success levels (ditto for Gonzaga).


Budget cuts from the states might hurt everything from education to athletics for schools. That still doesn't mean Football has impacted Men's Basketball to the degree people are assuming.
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby BirdsEyeView » April 6th, 2017, 10:18 am

Aargh wrote:Can finishing 3rd in the Valley last year be considered "on the rise", or would it be more accurate to say "didn't drop as far as the rest"?

You can go ahead and write me off as just another arrogant WSU fan. I watched all the MVC games on Fox Sports and EPSN and watched more on ESPN3. There was a lot of bad basketball played on MVC courts last year.

I managed to get tickets to a few home games. They weren't very interesting. Fans pretty much knew the walkons would be coming into the game once the lead hit 30 points.

If it's arrogant to observe that there were only 2 programs that put teams with any amount of appreciable quality on the court last year, then I'm arrogant. If that's your position, then you are accepting mediocrity as the new norm.


Although I agree with this viewpoint (Big 10 had bad basketball last year too), it's still very much short term thinking. To consider Football and Basketball together, you have to look over the course of history. Not 1 year, not since 2010 (Shockers start of their run), but over the course of time is how you evaluate a program.
Last edited by BirdsEyeView on April 6th, 2017, 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby Redhawk » April 6th, 2017, 10:19 am

Svoboda wrote:
Redhawk wrote:You want a more long term view Tribe?

From the MVC Media Guide:

All Time MVC BBall Standings (Current Members)

1st: ISUr
2nd: MSU
3rd: Bradley
4th: WSU
5th: SIU
6th: UNI

WSU is gone. Of the remaining top 5 all but Bradley have played football for their entire MVC
existence.

Where are you getting this? I just looked through the 2016-2017 media guide and here were the MVC only records for all schools:

574-501 Wichita State (71 seasons)
555-836 Drake (104 seasons)
536-466 Bradley (64 seasons)
363-329 Southern Illinois (41 seasons)
336-268 Illinois State (35 seasons)
272-376 Indiana State (40 seasons)
255-211 Missouri State (26 seasons)
230-220 Northern Iowa (25 seasons)
173-223 Evansville (22 seasons)
19-35 Loyola (3 seasons)

http://www.mvc-sports.com/mbasketball/m ... OZlfNLyuUk


Its not based on total wins as you show but winning percentages.
Look at page 189 of the current media guide.
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby Svoboda » April 6th, 2017, 10:25 am

Redhawk wrote:
Svoboda wrote:
Redhawk wrote:You want a more long term view Tribe?

From the MVC Media Guide:

All Time MVC BBall Standings (Current Members)

1st: ISUr
2nd: MSU
3rd: Bradley
4th: WSU
5th: SIU
6th: UNI

WSU is gone. Of the remaining top 5 all but Bradley have played football for their entire MVC
existence.

Where are you getting this? I just looked through the 2016-2017 media guide and here were the MVC only records for all schools:

574-501 Wichita State (71 seasons)
555-836 Drake (104 seasons)
536-466 Bradley (64 seasons)
363-329 Southern Illinois (41 seasons)
336-268 Illinois State (35 seasons)
272-376 Indiana State (40 seasons)
255-211 Missouri State (26 seasons)
230-220 Northern Iowa (25 seasons)
173-223 Evansville (22 seasons)
19-35 Loyola (3 seasons)

http://www.mvc-sports.com/mbasketball/m ... OZlfNLyuUk


Its not based on total wins as you show but winning percentages.
Look at page 189 of the current media guide.

Thank you!
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby Redhawk » April 6th, 2017, 10:32 am

tribecalledquest wrote:
This is partly why I don't really buy into the angst over who replaces Wichita. It's up to the current nine MVC team members to be better. Take care of your own program and things take care of themselves. Blaming it on adding Loyola or UIC is a joke. It's like complaining about scheduling. And putting all kinds of "blame" and outside factors instead of just realizing your own program isn't good enough. Start there.


:+1:
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby BirdsEyeView » April 6th, 2017, 10:39 am

jackwagon wrote:
The fact that you are projecting favorites in early April is laughable. Not one team has their roster set and there will be defections and commitments that will change the outlook. Loyola, Ill. St., and SIU all added kids later than this last year that were starters or big time contributors.


Then, why have these types of fluff pieces for next year already? It's called talking points (or conversation starters) and are what message boards are for as well...

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket ... gs-2017-18
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket ... acketology

I know Shocker fans are loving their top 10 ranking predictions for next year and not calling those early projections laughable.
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby Stickboy46 » April 6th, 2017, 11:19 am

BirdsEyeView wrote:
jackwagon wrote:
The fact that you are projecting favorites in early April is laughable. Not one team has their roster set and there will be defections and commitments that will change the outlook. Loyola, Ill. St., and SIU all added kids later than this last year that were starters or big time contributors.


Then, why have these types of fluff pieces for next year already? It's called talking points (or conversation starters) and are what message boards are for as well...

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket ... gs-2017-18
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket ... acketology

I know Shocker fans are loving their top 10 ranking predictions for next year and not calling those early projections laughable.


Well to be fair, WSU's roster IS set, so you have a good idea what you are going to get.

Now to the contrary, other rosters could get additional adds that might bump them up over WSU. Though most of them will be unproven freshman that may or may not live up to hype. WSU is one of the few teams that doesn't apply to.
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Re: Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

Postby BirdsEyeView » April 6th, 2017, 11:33 am

Stickboy46 wrote:
BirdsEyeView wrote:
jackwagon wrote:
The fact that you are projecting favorites in early April is laughable. Not one team has their roster set and there will be defections and commitments that will change the outlook. Loyola, Ill. St., and SIU all added kids later than this last year that were starters or big time contributors.


Then, why have these types of fluff pieces for next year already? It's called talking points (or conversation starters) and are what message boards are for as well...

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket ... gs-2017-18
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket ... acketology

I know Shocker fans are loving their top 10 ranking predictions for next year and not calling those early projections laughable.


Well to be fair, WSU's roster IS set, so you have a good idea what you are going to get.

Now to the contrary, other rosters could get additional adds that might bump them up over WSU. Though most of them will be unproven freshman that may or may not live up to hype. WSU is one of the few teams that doesn't apply to.


Sure, but you guys care about those rankings and take pride in them. That's the point. So, projecting next year in April is not "laughable"...my point to the poster.
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