Sounds like Wichita St to the AAC... Who gets an Invite?

[Fargobison]

This is why I think NDSU really does want in the MVC proper that badly. It's their best chance to protect football. The problem is their mission in athletics just doesn't match up with the all-sport MVC members. I kind of feel bad for them because of geography; they just simply lack programs around them with similar aspirations.

But if NDSU is going to throw their body in front of a Murray St add, when the livelihood of the MVC as a whole depends on our basketball product, there's going to be issues. I get the sense that UNI/SIU/InSU/IlSU/MoSt are willing to let the football product suffer in the name of basketball, which violenty runs counter to the NDSU mission.

NDSU is in a tough spot, we would probably be in the WAC if it still existed. That is the western league where schools like NDSU used to go when they outgrew the FCS.

NDSU isn't going to block Murray, I have a pretty good feeling that UND getting into the MVFC(before the league was rather hostile to that idea) was because people in the MVC knew that WSU was on their way out.

[TheAsianSensation]

This is why I think NDSU really does want in the MVC proper that badly. It's their best chance to protect football. The problem is their mission in athletics just doesn't match up with the all-sport MVC members. I kind of feel bad for them because of geography; they just simply lack programs around them with similar aspirations.

But if NDSU is going to throw their body in front of a Murray St add, when the livelihood of the MVC as a whole depends on our basketball product, there's going to be issues. I get the sense that UNI/SIU/InSU/IlSU/MoSt are willing to let the football product suffer in the name of basketball, which violenty runs counter to the NDSU mission.

The funny thing is, basketball at NDSU is ascending. Fans are excited about the new arena. Fans turn out for decent opponents. Plus, a sizeable minority of football fans are growing impatient being parked in FCS, while there's only one Division I in basketball. I think an MVC invite would have dramatically raised the basketball psyche at NDSU. We all have accepted that the invite is not coming. I think it is a shame for us and for the MVC. And for the MVFC for that matter.

By the way, I agree with Lakes on many things. But I disagree on his willingness to toss the other Dakotas aside. I hope whereever our future lies, we've got at least SDSU there as well, if not all the Dakotas.

Well the good news for NDSU is that if they continue working on basketball....in a few years they could become the best available basketball program during the next realignment. It gets kind of barren after Murray and Valpo.

[TheAsianSensation]

It's also too bad a conference like this is probably too unfeasable:

NDSU
SDSU
Montana
Montana St
Idaho
EWU
plus 3 or 4 more Big Sky castoffs or the other Dakotas

That would be prime football and a pretty good setup for NDSU to go on a massive run in basketball. Probably too many Big Sky bridges to burn to make it happen, though.

[mvfcfan]

You know I really don't think the MVC football schools' fans (besides UNI) would have a problem with NDSU or SDSU except for the fact that they are so far away from everyone else in The Valley. The private non-football schools do have an issue with the XDSU's though.

Here's the deal. When Creighton left we replaced a private school with a private school (Loyola). Now that Wichita is leaving we are going to replace them with a public school (most likely Murray St). Valparaiso is a private school that has a really good chance of being added so the 12th team has to be public to keep it even (6 public, 6 private). UW Milwaukee looks to have the inside edge there.

The thing these three potential adds all have in common is that they are very close to the other MVC schools. The XDSU's are not. Indiana State does not have an issue with sending the football team to the Dakota's once a year, but us and SIU when we agreed to allow USD in the MVFC made it to where we only had to travel up there once a year. We are definitely not interested in sending every single team we have to Fargo and/or Brookings every year. Sending all of our teams to Murray, Valaparaiso, and Milwaukee is very doable for us. They're all three close enough that we can bus to those schools.

Also the MVFC is going to be fine with or without the Dakotas. At the minimum we will have 6 teams, but there's a very good chance that WIU and YSU would still be in the conference. My guess is that if we take 2 of the Horizon League's teams for basketball they will go after WIU, IUPUI, and IPFW; and all three of those schools would be smart to accept that offer. It's just a better fit for all three of those schools. I've actually wondered for the past few years why IUPUI and IPFW weren't in the Horizon League. WIU seems to fit in pretty well geographically as well. But seriously where are the Dakotas going to take their football? They literally have no where to go.

[Fargobison]

Bingo

The DSUs response to being told you need to up your basketball game was to build a 5,000 completely retractable multipurpose facility with a basketball court in it, not up your basketball budget, and not show a commitment to keeping winning coaches.

Think about it this way:
The Dakota schools spending between 1.2 and 1.45 million in basketball. The MVC average is like 2.6-2.7m.

Drake and Valpo spend 1.2 million on football. The MVFC average is 3.4m

Would the Dakota schools be willing to add Drake and Valpo to the MVFC? F no they wouldn't. They don't show a commitment to winning beyond what is required to do so in their current league. Remember, Drake has taken UND to the final possession just a year ago. Drake is averaging a conference title every 3 or 4 years since the turn of the century in the PFL. That's about the same as NDSU and basketball titles in The Summit.

The new arena has raised revenue and thus the basketball team is now flying charter to places like WIU and ORU. The new arena had to happen for the budget to rise. It wasn't a response to anything from the MVC, it was what needed to happen for the basketball program to continue to grow. It took a decade for the school to cobble together all the private money to get it done. It is kind of amazing that the school was able to get that done while tripling its athletic budget in about a 10 year span. All with next to zero help from the state of ND.

I don't get this comparison regarding Drake. NDSU basketball has beaten top 15 programs on the road, won an NCAA tournament game and finished with an RPI near the top 30 since going DI. Our five year average RPI is pretty damn respectable. We aren't in anyway comparable to freaking Drake and their football program.

[professorbum]

You know I really don't think the MVC football schools' fans (besides UNI) would have a problem with NDSU or SDSU except for the fact that they are so far away from everyone else in The Valley. The private non-football schools do have an issue with the XDSU's though.

Here's the deal. When Creighton left we replaced a private school with a private school (Loyola). Now that Wichita is leaving we are going to replace them with a public school (most likely Murray St). Valparaiso is a private school that has a really good chance of being added so the 12th team has to be public to keep it even (6 public, 6 private). UW Milwaukee looks to have the inside edge there.

The thing these three potential adds all have in common is that they are very close to the other MVC schools. The XDSU's are not. Indiana State does not have an issue with sending the football team to the Dakota's once a year, but us and SIU when we agreed to allow USD in the MVFC made it to where we only had to travel up there once a year. We are definitely not interested in sending every single team we have to Fargo and/or Brookings every year. Sending all of our teams to Murray, Valaparaiso, and Milwaukee is very doable for us. They're all three close enough that we can bus to those schools.

Also the MVFC is going to be fine with or without the Dakotas. At the minimum we will have 6 teams, but there's a very good chance that WIU and YSU would still be in the conference. My guess is that if we take 2 of the Horizon League's teams for basketball they will go after WIU, IUPUI, and IPFW; and all three of those schools would be smart to accept that offer. It's just a better fit for all three of those schools. I've actually wondered for the past few years why IUPUI and IPFW weren't in the Horizon League. WIU seems to fit in pretty well geographically as well. But seriously where are the Dakotas going to take their football? They literally have no where to go.

I honestly don't know where we go. I suppose we look at the Big Sky. Or resurrect WAC football. Maybe FBS independent. There's enough of those out there now to find plenty of opponents to play. But being in any situation simply because you have no other choice is NEVER a good, tenable situation to be in. That's why I hope our AD is losing some sleep over this and thinking it all through. The Horizon will be coming for those teams, and you're right...of course those teams should jump if offered.

[uniftw]

Bingo

The DSUs response to being told you need to up your basketball game was to build a 5,000 completely retractable multipurpose facility with a basketball court in it, not up your basketball budget, and not show a commitment to keeping winning coaches.

Think about it this way:
The Dakota schools spending between 1.2 and 1.45 million in basketball. The MVC average is like 2.6-2.7m.

Drake and Valpo spend 1.2 million on football. The MVFC average is 3.4m

Would the Dakota schools be willing to add Drake and Valpo to the MVFC? F no they wouldn't. They don't show a commitment to winning beyond what is required to do so in their current league. Remember, Drake has taken UND to the final possession just a year ago. Drake is averaging a conference title every 3 or 4 years since the turn of the century in the PFL. That's about the same as NDSU and basketball titles in The Summit.

The new arena has raised revenue and thus the basketball team is now flying charter to places like WIU and ORU. The new arena had to happen for the budget to rise. It wasn't a response to anything from the MVC, it was what needed to happen for the basketball program to continue to grow. It took a decade for the school to cobble together all the private money to get it done. It is kind of amazing that the school was able to get that done while tripling its athletic budget in about a 10 year span. All with next to zero help from the state of ND.

I don't get this comparison regarding Drake. NDSU basketball has beaten top 15 programs on the road, won an NCAA tournament game and finished with an RPI near the top 30 since going DI. Our five year average RPI is pretty damn respectable. We aren't in anyway comparable to freaking Drake and their football program.

it wasn't all that long ago Drake beat #7 illinost State in and FCS football game.

The PFL didn't have a playoff bid when Drake was running the league. They may have had aplyoff win with Creighton as HC. That's the comp

NDSU is to the basketball world what Drake is to the FCS world. NDSU would never let Drake into their football conference. Drake has a nice 16K seat stadium. Has taken top teams to the wire, even beaten a couple. They do so on a budget that is the football equivalent to that of what NDSU spends.

[Fargobison]

The ISUR team they beat finished 4-7, they were not good. I don't think NDSU would stand in Drake's way if they were willing to add scholarships to show some sort of commitment but I don't think Drake would want any part of that idea.

NDSU is willing to spend more on hoops, the new arena is big piece of that plan, this is where the comp falls apart in a hurry. It is really an awful comparison, the list of schools in the MVC that have won tournament games lately is rather small. Been a while for Valpo as well.

What NDSU's basketball program has done and what it spends is not what is stopping it from gaining entry into the MVC. The answer to that question is location, location and location.

[TOPSTRAIGHT]

Big SKY football is way over full at 13 after ND leaves and Idaho comes in.No room(thought everyone knew this).

The WAC is a wreck.UMKC,Chicago St. could leave.NMSU with FBS football.Nobody else with any football.Very doubtful they start any football.

The people "stuck" in the MVFC are fortunate to have such a good and stable league.The Dakota schools have no choice unless they want to start a new conference and that would also be problematic.


YES--all the previous statements are obvious--but some pollsters here go on and on anyway like magically things will change to fit their theories.

[professorbum]

Big SKY football is way over full at 13 after ND leaves and Idaho comes in.No room(thought everyone knew this).

The WAC is a wreck.UMKC,Chicago St. could leave.NMSU with FBS football.Nobody else with any football.Very doubtfull they start any football.

The people "stuck" in the MVFC are fortunate to have such a good and stable league.The Dakota schools have no choice unless they want to start a new conference and that would also be problematic.


YES--all the previous statements are obvious--but some pollsters here go on and on anyway like magically things will change to fit their theories.

I just think its interesting that people think the MVFC is a "good and stable league" without the Dakotas. It ain't.