Order of finish with Murray & Valpo included

[Cdizzle]

Name the last team to win the MVC with a starting freshman PG.

People thinking ISUr is "loaded" is hilarious.

Wasn't it Missouri State back in 2011? Maybe not, but I know they had a MVC freshman POY on that team. Indiana State won the conference tournament that year as well with a freshman PG (Jake Odum).


As far as ILST being the worst 17-1 MVC team ever, I would say that is probably true. ILST lost by 41 at Wichita and lost by 20 to Wichita in the championship game. And that is also the reason why they didn't make the NCAA tournament. Perhaps if they had lost at Wichita by around 15 and then lost by 7 or 8 in the championship game, they might have gotten an at large bid. I can't see ILST being as good next year and winning the conference especially since they are losing like what, 4 starters?

Scheer was a freshman guard, but came off the bench. He was on the All-Freshman team.

Having a guy like Odum that's good enough to help you win 3 games in March is one thing. Having a guy ready to help you win 14 in January and February is another. I'm not saying it can't be done, but I think it's something that should be considered. I was hard on Juwan McCloud, mostly based on the stuff UNI people were saying about him in September. But I'd bet on Sophomore McCloud more than any freshman PG coming in to the league.

[Redhawk]

Elijah Clarance Program changing PG. Probably best Müller recruit ever.
Think Wes W. but a better shooter

I wanna know how this guy can be the best Muller recruit ever. That's a TALL order, and I say that as a compliment to Muller, who's landed some very good talent.

But this Clarence guy apparently had offers from Hofstra, Rice, Delaware and Towson. What makes you so sure he's going to come in and dominate?

http://www.videtteonline.com/sports/eli ... 21568.html

Per Rivals:
He has received interest from Georgetown, Maryland, Miami, Syracuse, Virginia,
Virginia Tech, Davidson. Has visited Georgetown & Maryland.

With Evans to share PG with he won't need to come in and dominate.
Top 3 players should be Yarbrough, Copeland @ Fayne...all Juniors.

[mule]

Name the last team to win the MVC with a starting freshman PG.

People thinking ISUr is "loaded" is hilarious.

Wasn't it Missouri State back in 2011? Maybe not, but I know they had a MVC freshman POY on that team. Indiana State won the conference tournament that year as well with a freshman PG (Jake Odum).


As far as ILST being the worst 17-1 MVC team ever, I would say that is probably true. ILST lost by 41 at Wichita and lost by 20 to Wichita in the championship game. And that is also the reason why they didn't make the NCAA tournament. Perhaps if they had lost at Wichita by around 15 and then lost by 7 or 8 in the championship game, they might have gotten an at large bid. I can't see ILST being as good next year and winning the conference especially since they are losing like what, 4 starters?

Scheer was a freshman guard, but came off the bench. He was on the All-Freshman team.

Having a guy like Odum that's good enough to help you win 3 games in March is one thing. Having a guy ready to help you win 14 in January and February is another. I'm not saying it can't be done, but I think it's something that should be considered. I was hard on Juwan McCloud, mostly based on the stuff UNI people were saying about him in September. But I'd bet on Sophomore McCloud more than any freshman PG coming in to the league.

Odum was a red shirt freshman. No one ever knew his true age. lol

[BirdsEyeView]

That would be the exact same argument we heard about UNI in 2009-10 and 2014-15. I'll let you check to see how those two teams turned out, but I think you're right to a degree, UNI is absolutely stacked for 2018-19, might be a year early this year.

Also, unlike other teams in this league we know what our roster is going to look like in 2 years and we develop talent...

It's kind of eery how similar this roster sets up like the 08/09 and 09/10 seasons in terms of the next two years.

Let me first say, I hope you are right. The conference needs UNI to be good.

However...I did my homework here.

Here is your 2013-2014 roster 16-15 record (before your big season in 2014-2015):
http://unipanthers.com/roster.aspx?rost ... ath=mbball

Your outgoing seniors: Chip Rank, Matt Morrison (that's it...no Jeremy "Do everything for UNI" Morgan outgoing that year)

Look at the rest of that roster, especially Junior class (Seth Tuttle, Deon Mitchell, Nate Buss, Paul Jesperson, RS) and your Sophomore class (Matt Bohannon, Wes Washpun)

Tuttle averaged 15ppg
Mitchell averaged 12.4ppg
Nate Buss averaged 10.6ppg
Matt Bohannon averaged 9.9ppg
Wes Waspun averaged 8.3ppg
Jeremy Morgan averaged 6ppg

Your seniors?
Chip Rank 5.2 ppg
Matt Morrison 1.3ppg

You lost a whole 6.5ppg from 13-14 season from outgoing Seniors leading into the 14-15 season!!!
You brought back a veteran senior-laden team that among the group returned 66.27 ppg across all returnees!!!

Compare to this season 2016-2017 and what you lose vs return.

Seniors lost - Jeremy Morgan (14.8ppg, 5.8rbs, 2.7 assists) & Jordan Ashton (8.5ppg)

So you only lose 23.3ppg (but also your senior leader)

Return from your entire roster (includes 7 guys at 3 points per game or less) a total of 46.2 points per game.


The difference...one team was returning it's entire core of players (your highest scoring outgoing Senior in 2013-2014 season was Chip Rank and he was 7th, I repeat 7th!!!! on the team in scoring).

This past season
Morgan = 1st in scoring
Ashton = 3rd in scoring

2nd? Bennett Koch who was always in foul trouble

So, I repeat, I can't fathom a huge step up to win the league and I will gladly eat crow if they do, but in no way are they looking to finish 1st in this conference based on that! And your comparison to the 2013-2014 team INTO 2014-2015 is not even close to the same returning players at the same level of performances

[achrist70]

I think that this thread proves that the Valley will be the biggest cluster in the history of the league. Here are my thoughts. (If both Murray State and Valpo come)

Top Tier

MIssouri State- If anyone besides Lusk was their coach they would be easily the favorite of the league, but I don't think anyone is sure that this team has enough talent to overcome their coach.

UNI- Best coach in the league, a Bennett Koch that stays out of foul trouble ( a lot to ask) could be the 2nd best player in the league, and while the loss of Jeremy Morgan is a big one, I don't think you will see Klint Carlson be as bad as he was this past year, and everyone else essentially will know what it is like to play D1 basketball, which is huge. Add in a sharp shooting transfer in Adam McDermott, this team is better than most think.

Illinois St- Any Redbird fan that thinks that this team will be better than last year is kidding themselves, not team except Kentucky can lose that much and be better. I still think that they are a 11-12 win team, but this team will take a while to gel, I would say they have a better chance of winning in St. Louis then the regular season.

Loyola- Probably have the most coming back, and while I am not sold on them, they have been a pesky team the last few years, that I think could get over the hump a bit here.

Middle Tier-

Bradley- This team to me is a year away, still young, but will be a tough out every night, however I just think they will be the team that loses a ton of close games that ultimately is their down fall.

Murray State and Valpo- I think both of these teams are in a good spot, but I think it is tough for them to come into the Valley and compete right away, seems like the logical place to put both of the teams.

SIU- Very similar to UNI, but with even less talent, Barry is a very good coach, and can usually polish a turd enough to make it shine, but I think they are probably headed for a Thursday night game, but seem to be above the other 3.

Lower Tier-

Indiana State- This to me is the toughest team to figure out, one of the best players in the league in Scott, but lose everything else around him, but still can be sneaky, I just think it is another long year for the trees.

Drake- I'll take them above Evansville, I like the hire they made, have more talent then there record has indicated the past few years, but I think there will be too many growing pains to move up.

Evansville- I don't see the one player that they can run everything through, so without that they stuggle.

I put these in order, but really think any of the tiers are interchangeable. Not sold on any team right now, Missouri State has the best player in Alize Johnson, UNI has the best coach, Loyola has the most depth coming back, and Illinois State on paper has the best recruiting class coming in.

[BirdsEyeView]

I think that this thread proves that the Valley will be the biggest cluster in the history of the league. Here are my thoughts. (If both Murray State and Valpo come)

Top Tier

MIssouri State- If anyone besides Lusk was their coach they would be easily the favorite of the league, but I don't think anyone is sure that this team has enough talent to overcome their coach.

UNI- Best coach in the league, a Bennett Koch that stays out of foul trouble ( a lot to ask) could be the 2nd best player in the league, and while the loss of Jeremy Morgan is a big one, I don't think you will see Klint Carlson be as bad as he was this past year, and everyone else essentially will know what it is like to play D1 basketball, which is huge. Add in a sharp shooting transfer in Adam McDermott, this team is better than most think.

Illinois St- Any Redbird fan that thinks that this team will be better than last year is kidding themselves, not team except Kentucky can lose that much and be better. I still think that they are a 11-12 win team, but this team will take a while to gel, I would say they have a better chance of winning in St. Louis then the regular season.

Loyola- Probably have the most coming back, and while I am not sold on them, they have been a pesky team the last few years, that I think could get over the hump a bit here.

Middle Tier-

Bradley- This team to me is a year away, still young, but will be a tough out every night, however I just think they will be the team that loses a ton of close games that ultimately is their down fall.

Murray State and Valpo- I think both of these teams are in a good spot, but I think it is tough for them to come into the Valley and compete right away, seems like the logical place to put both of the teams.

SIU- Very similar to UNI, but with even less talent, Barry is a very good coach, and can usually polish a turd enough to make it shine, but I think they are probably headed for a Thursday night game, but seem to be above the other 3.

Lower Tier-

Indiana State- This to me is the toughest team to figure out, one of the best players in the league in Scott, but lose everything else around him, but still can be sneaky, I just think it is another long year for the trees.

Drake- I'll take them above Evansville, I like the hire they made, have more talent then there record has indicated the past few years, but I think there will be too many growing pains to move up.

Evansville- I don't see the one player that they can run everything through, so without that they stuggle.

I put these in order, but really think any of the tiers are interchangeable. Not sold on any team right now, Missouri State has the best player in Alize Johnson, UNI has the best coach, Loyola has the most depth coming back, and Illinois State on paper has the best recruiting class coming in.

Questions to ask UNI fans...I assume achrist is one given his grandeur thoughts for UNI next season (also noticed BCPanther and uniftw both popped onto the site and never responded to my above post, rightfully so).....

Does Ben Jacobson get to play? What makes him the best coach in this league? Who ran your team last year? I mean literally who had the ball in his hands the most? Also, who was your best defender by far on the team last year? What was your record last year at UNI with said player? Who is going to guard Fayne, Johnson and Jackson without getting in foul trouble?

Again, I love the optimism, but realism is a great trait to have too.

For example, I believe I have no f'n clue if my Birds will be any good. So, I am not going to put them 1st, 2nd or even 3rd until I see them play. Way too many unknowns.

Realistically, I don't know how UNI fans can look at the roster and say "yep, that's a top 2 team for sure next season."

[Redhawk]

Illinois St- Any Redbird fan that thinks that this team will be better than last year is kidding themselves,

I haven't heard anyone say that. They don't have to be better than last year's team. They just have to
be better than everyone else this season and the Shockers are gone!

[UNIFanSince1983]

Well I mean I think it is obvious that Illinois State will run the table ala Wichita. I mean they only lose everyone, but Calipari...ehm I mean Muller obviously recruited the best class ever. /s

I love how ISUr fans just assume that a host of new players can just dominate the Valley. Sure the Valley was down last year, but I don't think it is a leap to say players can make a huge jump between seasons. Prior to his Junior year ago did anyone see Jeremy Morgan as the player he turned in to? Balentine for Evansville went from 8ppg to 23ppg. I know a lot was the Evansville system, but you still didn't see it coming. There is something to be said about being in a program and being in the league.

Now that isn't to say ISUr won't have a great season. ISUr could win the league and be really good, but it isn't the foregone conclusion some of you delusional Redbird fans think. I think it will be fairly competitive, and there is probably about 4 teams that have a realistic shot at winning it.

[uniftw]

Realistically, I don't know how UNI fans can look at the roster and say "yep, that's a top 2 team for sure next season."

Well, it was a top 3 team last year with the same roster. Now it's a year older and one of the two teams ahead of them is gone...so....

UNI did suck last year, and finished top 3.

[Stickboy46]

Name the last team to win the MVC with a starting freshman PG.

People thinking ISUr is "loaded" is hilarious.

Are we excluding Shamet because he was a redshirt? If not, then there ...

And its comical to see anyone predict UNI as first. Top 3 is a stretch to me. They were .500 in conference team and lost the only player that appeared to be an upper half D1 talent. The rest of the roster is atrocious.