Order of finish with Murray & Valpo included

[Rambler63]

Here's an idea... Now that Wichita State is gone from the league and this board, how about we all agree on some basic civility ground rules? Here's my suggestion:

Let's not have posters suggest that "X doesn't belong in this league and needs to leave/get out." That's unproductive, offensive, and stupid. That's ShockerNet material.

[mvfcfan]

Here's an idea... Now that Wichita State is gone from the league and this board, how about we all agree on some basic civility ground rules? Here's my suggestion:

Let's not have posters suggest that "X doesn't belong in this league and needs to leave/get out." That's unproductive, offensive, and stupid. That's ShockerNet material.

[Brocks]

As the guy who started this thread, I'm a little put off by where it's gone. But that seems like the nature of sports message boards anymore -- can't just have a good-natured exchange without a) trolls getting nasty, or b) thought police telling us we shouldn't be speculating mindlessly about SPORTS, for crying out loud.

As to (a), these people are called malignant narcissists -- their personality disorders magnified by anonymity; and as to (b), it's SPORTS, for crying out loud. If we can't speculate mindlessly, WHAT'S THE POINT?

OK, enough of that.

[All-MVC Fan]

Here's an idea... Now that Wichita State is gone from the league and this board, how about we all agree on some basic civility ground rules? Here's my suggestion:

Let's not have posters suggest that "X doesn't belong in this league and needs to leave/get out." That's unproductive, offensive, and stupid. That's ShockerNet material.

[Drakey]

Given the current state of the Valley, one player could make any team a title contender. Comments about some team not deserving to be in the league are ridiculous. It actually appears to me that Drake is making more of an effort to be good than SIU. Our last coach was forced out after three years. The one before that was given 5, and his results were as good as Hinson's. His recruiting was far above what anybody in the conference is doing currently, except maybe Loyola. I'm always amazed at the pompous attitude that fans of schools have who have happened to luck into a good coaching hire or two, have a good run and suddenly view themselves as a powerhouse.

[RacerJoeD]

If one player can make that much of a difference, check out Jonathan Stark's stats for my Racers. And he was injured for most of the year...

[uniftw]

Given the current state of the Valley, one player could make any team a title contender. Comments about some team not deserving to be in the league are ridiculous. It actually appears to me that Drake is making more of an effort to be good than SIU. Our last coach was forced out after three years. The one before that was given 5, and his results were as good as Hinson's. His recruiting was far above what anybody in the conference is doing currently, except maybe Loyola. I'm always amazed at the pompous attitude that fans of schools have who have happened to luck into a good coaching hire or two, have a good run and suddenly view themselves as a powerhouse.

That's a good post, if it's not researched

Phelps went 77-86 (37-53) in 5 years. That's 47% (41%) win %. He never avoided the PIG, never finished over .500 in conference play and finished 7-11 in conference play 4 of his 5 seasons. He took over a program coming off it's only NCAA appearance in 5 plus decades.

Hinson, meanwhile, at SIU, took over a program that won 8 games the year before he got there and was starting the recovery process from Lowery, who rode Weber's and Painters recruits to a 29 win season in his third year and then never won more than 18 games (which was his fourth year). SIU the epitome of a dumpster fire in every single way when he got there. Fan base, admin, budget issues, etc... In 5 years at SIU Hinson has gone 79-83 (39-51).

Sure, not a massive improvement in win total but they took over two very different programs. One, after 5 years, was clearly trending the program up. Or, at the very least had the program above where it was when he got there and stabilized. The other? Well, apparently he recruited better than any coach in the conference and was blah blah blah. Yet with all of that talent, with all of the prized recruited and this and that, couldn't avoid the PIG.

Your last coach forced out after three years? He coached 1/3 of this past year, and from all accounts left on his own. Maybe he was forced out, but it sure sounds like he'd have been allowed to finish this year if he had wanted too.

I won't say anything regarding not belonging in the conference, but what I will say is the number 11. That's the number of seasons Drake has had over .500 since 1970 (47 seasons). Let's make it an even 50 years, to make sure we include the three seasons Drake fans love to brag about. 50 years and 14 seasons over .500. That math equals out to 1 winning season every 4. Granted, 5 of those seasons happened between 67/68-74/-75. So it's 9 winning seasons over the last 43. I'll add the number 2. The number of times Drake has avoided the PIG since the turn of the century.

I think Hinson has taken SIU as far as he can. I don't think he's a fantastic coach. I don't think he's anything more than an average MM recruiter. I think he pulled SIU out of a very, very, bad spot they were in 6 years ago. I don't know where they go from there though.

I'll hold off judgement on Drake's new coach. I remember what I was sold on with Giacoletti 4 years about about his recruiting, and turning Drake into Gonzaga in the Midwest and all of that.

[Drakey]

Most Drake fans were not sold on Giacoletti, so I'm surprised that a UNI fan would be. We tried to be positive at the outset, but it became pretty obvious by his second season that his recruiting was supbpar and his players did not improve. He seemed to have a philosophy of recruiting tall and slow and really liked guys who could not stay in front of the man they were guarding. We hoped maybe he had learned something at Gonzaga and could avoid another Utah disaster. He repeated it. If past success is irrelevant, so is past futility. We either have a coach now or we don't. So far things are looking up. I've watched enough of Medveds teams video to be fairly convinced the guy can coach. Hopefully he can get some players who want to put out he effort that his teams must put out to win. So far I'm impressed with his recruiting.

[DUBulldog]

Your last coach forced out after three years? He coached 1/3 of this past year, and from all accounts left on his own.

And the tooth fairy, the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus are all real.

While it's true that Giacoletti resigned, I believe it was clear to everybody that he was going to get fired if he did not. Maybe not right then, but certainly by the end of the season. He did exactly the same at Drake as at Utah....each season was worse than the one before it. His philosophies, both in recruiting and on-court, were right out of the 1950s.

And, before anybody suggests that he inherited a complete dumpster fire.....in the 7 years prior to Giacoletti taking over, Drake averaged 17.6 wins per season. Not great, but not a disaster. Even discarding the 28 win season in 2008, the average during that time period was 16 wins per season.

Drake's AD clearly butchered her first two MBB hires....I'm hoping 3rd time is the charm.

[BradleyFan71]

Why? They had the third least overall wins and fourth least conference wins. They haven't done well consistently in years.

Uhm, trajectory? Returning talent? Good recruiting? Solid coach? Other than that, nothing.

If they don't play at the same level I'm more inclined to see a downward trajectory. If the coach and recruiting was so great they wouldn't have been under .500.

Well....it WAS his first full recruiting class, so there's that! One recruiting class after a complete overhaul of the lineup does not mean the team should have been over .500. I think it would be incredibly unrealistic to believe that!