Serious Question

[squirrel]

Perhaps the league could have been proactive at its peak of 2006, and added Butler. But unfortunately there was no "sure" second option...the same reason SLU would not have moved is the same reason Dayton would not have come along. Since the league membership is/has always been committed to the magic 10 number, even if both the league and Butler wanted the move, the leadership would not have made the move.

Perhaps if such a move had been made and Butler becomes Butler and Wichita joins them with Final Fours, a solid 12th team could have been added.

But also, Butler wasn't "Butler" in 2006, yet, either.

Also, the Big East was inevitable. And no way Creighton and Butler stay if that opportunity comes.

So the long answer is a distant maybe, but the short answer is no, and even if some things worked to the league's favor, the end result would still largely be the same.

[uniftw]

That's where the MVC screwed up. They screwed up in 2013 but not by adding Loyola. It was way before that. I get Creighton is Catholic and almost all Big East teams are Catholic but I bet they might have been convinced to stay if the MVC decided 12 or 14 was the way to go at that time. Could you imagine Wichita State, Creighton, Dayton, Gonzaga, St. Mary's, and St. Louis (who probably would have agreed to join) along with the other eight? That's a minimum four bid league.

The MVC messed up in about 2010 by not being aggressive towards Butler, Dayton, SLU, Valpo, Belmont, etc...

Creighton bolting for the Big East was a no-brainer, but had we been agressive before that and uses UNI, CU, Bradley and WSU to draw in a Butler when they wanted out of the Horizon we may have also grabbed Dayton and SLU. Sure, it would have meant giving up the double round robin but so what. Even if CU (and Butler) left in 13 as they did we would have had Dayton and SLU locked in. Then we go grab Valpo, Bemont probably is more willing to join, Murray State, etc...

The Valley wasn't aggressive when it needed to be. It backed itself into a position of needing to be reactive and not proactive. In that process it back itself into Creighton leaving and in a spur of the momeny "Oh s***" situation adding Loyola. That was the end of it for WSU. It showed them where the conference wanted to be. It showed a lack of foresight. It showed many things that drove WSU. Just as the addition of Valpo now shows many the same things.

That's not the "fault" of those schools, but those schools represent what drove Creighton (yes, dream situation for them) and WSU out. It's what will make programs like UNI potentially look elsewhere. It represents small time, private focused, short term thinking. It represents not taking chances. It represents not wanting to change status quo. It represents not wanting to grow.

Maybe we couldn't have kept WSU, but god damn we sure could have done things to attempt to keep them - and teams in the future. Even if WSU still leaves, if we were aggressive and proactive in the past we'd be in a better position to grab schools now.

[squirrel]

Dayton and SLU were never realistic options.

[Make MVC Great Again]

The American should have never been formed.

[squirrel]

The Valley could have been the American before the American was formed.

No they couldn't have. The AAC is an FBS football league

[uniftw]

Dayton and SLU were never realistic options.

And just like that we accept it and are expected to move on.

That's small time thinking. Use the f****** leverage that existed back in 06/10 and make moves.

Nope. The thinking is "Probably not realistic so why try"

Small time thinking leads to small time results leads to replacing Creighton and WSU with Loyola and VU

[Cold Shockin']

I can't imagine anything, short of a WSU collapse athletically, that would have stopped this.

I think people underestimate the degree to which the academic aspirations of the university factor in moves of this kind. WSU's president has big goals for the university's continued advancement as a research university that leverages the kind of public/private interaction and innovation that is only viable in an urban setting. He has been on record for years about wanting to ride with universities that had similar profiles or were aspirational models for what WSU is trying to become. (That is not a knock on the institutions of the MVC, it's really just about the alignment of mission and vision.)

This conference move is expected to increase WSU's profile and reputation, which can come into play when the grant money is being doled out and prospective national and international companies are making decisions about where to do business. For those reasons, as much as for athletics, any opportunity to jump to The American was going to be pursued in earnest.

An aside: For my part, I will miss the MVC and wish the conference well. I'll certainly miss Mother's, Springfield Brewing, Iowa Taproom, Confluence, Court Avenue, Southtown Pub, Schlafly's Bottleworks, Urban Chestnut, Four Hands and Bissinger's, even while admitting that New Orleans, Houston and Memphis will sooth that loss to a degree.

Good luck to you all.

[squirrel]

Dayton and SLU were never realistic options.

And just like that we accept it and are expected to move on.

That's small time thinking. Use the f****** leverage that existed back in 06/10 and make moves.

Nope. The thinking is "Probably not realistic so why try"

Small time thinking leads to small time results leads to replacing Creighton and WSU with Loyola and VU

No, I'm not saying accept it and move on...I'm just saying playing the "What if?" game, you still need to have realistic options.

Butler at one point in time was. Dayton and SLU no. That being said, maybe not immediately, but long-term I think SLU is an increasingly likely future member, but they will still exhaust their options during the Travis Ford era. But until it becomes painfully clear to them no one else except the Valley wants them and the A10 is a shell of its former self, they are still in the "unlikely" category.

[Make MVC Great Again]

Agree with you all the way Cold Shockin.

You have AD clowns in this conference on record (Loyola), saying that they thought Wichita made a move because of only athletic intentions. That is pretty one sided for you to say when the Shockers accounted for the majority of your basketball attendance the past four years.

This move was to get Wichita State with equally minded research universities, bettering the whole brand.

I must say this is a true example of athletics bettering a whole university, not a university catering to athletics.

[Veritas]

Not sure if it would have made a difference, but the SIU AD's comments indicated how the conference thinks small. IMO though, the final straw were the comments made by the MVFC commissioner Patty Viverito. It didn't offer WSU any other options but to leave.

At that point WSU had to get out. I don't think HCGM would last too many more seasons in the MoVal with the continued lousy tournament seeds.


http://shockerhoops.net/index.php/2016/ ... ri-valley/

http://www.kansas.com/sports/college/wi ... 84052.html