If we go to 12 who do you want (choose 2) poll?

[uniguy]

Markets mean significantly less in a mid-major league where there isn't a big TV deal. What good does being in a major market do you if you are such a small player in that market that nobody notices you?

Take Loyola and compare them to a school like SDSU. Chicago has almost 3 million in the metro and almost 10 million in the metro. There are less than a million people in the entire gigantic state of South Dakota. Yet I would bet if you polled every Chicagoan and every South Dakotan on who their favorite team was, there would be more people who said they were SDSU fans than Loyola fans. I would bet more people follow SDSU closely than they do Loyola.

That isn't a knock on Loyola. They are in a market with a ton of pro sports teams, minor league teams, and even a number of college teams (some in higher profile leagues). SDSU has significantly less to compete with in South Dakota, it just makes sense. But my point is.....when the pedal meets the road, what does our league REALLY gain by being in bigger markets? A little bit of recruiting inroads.....a nice destination for fans to travel. But without a big TV deal like BTN to try and add cable subscriptions it really isn't a ton.

I think the strength of the league is that the teams are in smaller towns and the people in those towns care about their teams. The "rabidness" of the fan base ebbs and flows as it does for most mid-majors, but overall I think teams like UNI, Illinois State, SIU, etc benefit from not having to compete with other programs directly in their towns.

A team like Creighton, Wichita, Marquette, Villanova......great. They are big-time and have captured the hearts of their town. That is great. But when you are UWM (second behind Marquette in their town.....if you don't even count the overwhelming influence of Wisconsin.....or all the pro teams), or Omaha (second behind Creighton), or Oral Roberts (beind Tulsa.....not to mention OU and OSU) you just don't see that much of a benefit at our level. I'll take a Valpo or a Murray who at least gets support from their own community over a team that is swallowed in a large market. At least that is my opinion.

[TheAsianSensation]

I'm kind of hoping NKU takes off these next couple years and makes the decision easy.

Right now I want Murray St and whoever is willing to spend and win in the next couple years.

[mvfcfan]

It's too bad that Belmont isn't willing to come in with Murray State. That by far would be the best two additions possible.

However, I can see why Belmont would want to stay in the OVC from a travel perspective and I am respectful of that decision. They are literally right in the center of their conference and the farthest they currently have to travel is 5 hours north to Charleston, IL. In the MVC there would be 7 schools that are over 6 hours away.

I was honestly surprised when Murray State wanted to join the league. I figured Murray State probably wouldn't want to come to the MVC because of their football team. I figured they would probably like the idea of staying in a true all-sports conference.

Before Creighton and Wichita State left; and Valparaiso joined; I actually liked the thought of Indiana State moving to the OVC because of travel and the fact that we could compete better financially in basketball and football. Plus there would be the added bonus of getting to restart our rivalry with Eastern Illinois again. Now that both Valparaiso and Evansville are in the MVC it kind of makes more sense for us to stay now. The football travel in the MVFC is what really sucks though. Taking the football team all the way to the Dakotas every year has to be expensive. If we were to add them for all sports then things start to get really expensive.

After saying that I think these are the schools that need to be considered, somewhat in order (if either St Louis or Belmont changes their mind then let them in as the #12).
1) Murray State= No explanation necessary. They're basically a lock for the #11 spot. If we can't get them then we should just stay at 10.
2) Oral Roberts= In basketball this century they had 14 consecutive winning seasons and 3 NCAA tournament appearances. In baseball they've been to the NCAA tournament 18 times since 1998. They also give Missouri State a travel partner, potential rival, and keep the public/private split even.
3) Milwaukee= They were a finalist for MVC membership this last time around. They've made the tournament 4 times this century and won 3 games, including a Sweet 16 run in 2005. They are not a bad add and are worth considering again.
4) Northern Kentucky= NKU has a lot of potential. There is no denying that. Their basketball history in D2 is honestly pretty good. They made the D2 NCAA tournament 12 times since 1995 and they made the real deal in their first year of eligibility. The big question is if they can keep being successful. So far so good, but D1 is a different animal than D2. Overall they appear that they would be a good add.
5) Oakland= They just came off a 25-9 season where they won the Horizon League and won a first round game in the NIT. They've been good in the past. Overall they would be an okay add.

At the end of the day I think the 5 above are probably the ones that are most likely to be considered by the search committee. Besides Murray State two of them are privates while 2 are non-football publics. The XDSUs are worth looking at, but the travel is an issue and that is why they most likely won't be considered. I think the league wants to keep travel down as much as possible. I also don't think the private schools would go for that idea, which in their defense I can see why, because I would be against adding two privates for the same reasons.

[MissouriValleyUnite]

Good list.

I break mine in 4 tiers.

Tier I - Can't Miss
Murray State

Tier II - Solid Adds
Oral Roberts
Northern Kentucky

Tier III - Meh, but I'll acquiesce
Illinois-Chicago
UMKC
Milwaukee

Tier IV - Irreconciable
Omaha

I don't see anyone outside those 7 receiving consideration.

Won't Accept
Saint Louis
Belmont

Can't Miss, but Geography rules 'em out
Grand Canyon
New Mexico State
North Dakota State
South Dakota State
Arlington

Not Impossible, but MVC unlikely to consider Arkansas/Michigan/Ohio
Little Rock
Oakland
Wright State

[VUGrad1314]

This potential expansion discussion is very interesting as it carries such a profound impact on the future of the conference. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the Dakotas even with the travel concerns since they have both averaged a top 100 RPI over the past 5 years and this conference needs quality. Adding Murray State and NKU probably ends most talk of expanding further west and further isolates Missouri State, although it does set us up as the midmajor league for the state. It would also open up Wright State and Oakland as possible followup adds, though I doubt our southernmost schools would sign off on that. I question whether Wright State could even make the jump financially and whether Oakland's success is sustainable long-term. Adding Oral Roberts or Little Rock might be our gateway to getting back into Texas with UT-Arlington and SFA if we ever decide to go to 14. That would open up some options on a new tourney site should they ever decide to leave St Louis, but it either means no Murray State or we need to either add or drop a football member, which we could do with Sam Houston State or Central Arkansas, or perhaps Western Illinois bolts for the OVC in that scenario. Adding UIC and Milwaukee would be upside plays that don't do anything for the league short-term and it would change the character of the league and make Chicago much more prominent as an MVC city, something I'm not certain that the conference wants. On the plus side however this move would theoretically keep all ptions open for any followup rounds of expansion. The one thing we risk is the loss of profile and prestige while these two programs endure their growing pains as they adjust to the MVC.

[mvfcfan]

The two XDSU schools should be considered in this process for sure. They are really the two schools I could see coming in and winning the conference year after year. The biggest issue is that I'm not sure our league office is willing to play dirty with the Summit League. If we take both Dakota schools that means that the Summit League will be down to 6 schools assuming that IPFW also leaves. But then again, why should we care about the Summit League? Regardless of what were to happen to UND, USD, and WIU we'd still have at least 8 teams in the MVFC because of YSU. We'd have 12 for basketball and 10 for baseball. That's really a pretty solid and stable league. As far as the Summit League is concerned maybe them and the WAC could merge together, but that's not particularly our problem is it?

I think if we were to add NDSU and SDSU we need to get rid of the MVFC and just make football a conference (MVC) sponsored sport and add YSU as a football only member (UND, USD, and WIU could also be invited as football only depending on if they were still available).

I think that it's pretty reasonable to assume that Murray State, Milwaukee, Northern KY, and Oral Roberts will be the primary schools considered in this process. Murray State is solid but the other three all have question marks all over them. On the other hand NDSU and SDSU really don't have very many question marks except for the fact that they add a lot of travel.

So the big question is do we add two solid teams with added travel or do we add 1 solid team plus one with question marks to keep travel down? It's a very tough decision, but one that we need to get right for sure.

And before someone mentions NMSU and GCU let me make it clear. There is a big difference between traveling to the Dakotas and traveling to the southwestern US. NDSU and SDSU are actually busable for Drake and UNI. NMSU and GCU aren't busable for anyone. NDSU and SDSU are also in spots that will make it difficult for them to be poached away. GCU and NMSU could be poached away pretty easily.

[VUGrad1314]

For the record I'm pretty confident in NKU Less so in Oral Roberts and Milwaukee . My concern is whether Missouri State and SIU would accept NKU since it'd be a pretty far trip and travel costs\finances are a concern to them. I don't think the MVC is terribly worried about the Summit's future. They have a similar agreement with the Horizon League for football and that hasn't stopped them from repeatedly taking teams from that league (Evansville Loyola Valpo and they also strongly considered UIC and Milwaukee) Heck, Omaha from the Summit was even a finalist this past go around As was UMKC in 2013.

[ACECARD]

Speaking of Grand Canyon, I notice that the Aces men's soccer team is playing them in Phoenix on September 7. Anyone else playing them in anything in the future? Hard to see how the Aces would fly an entire soccer team out that far, for just one soccer game.

[uniftw]

Fargo is not a bus trip from Cedar Falls unless you make it a 3 day trip. It's 7 hours one way. You're going up the day before, and even if you leave right after the game it's going to be an overnight bus or get back so late that you're taking the next day off for recovery from a 7 hour bus trip.

For something like Volleyball it might work with SDSU. 5.5 hours to SDSU from UNI. 3 house from SDSU to NDSU. 7 hours home next day.

The idea of the DSU's has grown on me. The problem in my head is Murray State is still the best 11th. The lack of a good 12th is the issue. Going to 14 does no good unless it's a 3 bid league.

NDSU, SDSU Murray State and SFA would be fantastic adds to get to 14

[Jsnhbe1Birds]

Fargo is not a bus trip from Cedar Falls unless you make it a 3 day trip. It's 7 hours one way. You're going up the day before, and even if you leave right after the game it's going to be an overnight bus or get back so late that you're taking the next day off for recovery from a 7 hour bus trip.

For something like Volleyball it might work with SDSU. 5.5 hours to SDSU from UNI. 3 house from SDSU to NDSU. 7 hours home next day.

The idea of the DSU's has grown on me. The problem in my head is Murray State is still the best 11th. The lack of a good 12th is the issue. Going to 14 does no good unless it's a 3 bid league.

NDSU, SDSU Murray State and SFA would be fantastic adds to get to 14

SFA is so far south. MSU cant travel with them. You might as well add GCU if youre talking about anyone in texas.